Pence vows to fight subpoena all the way to Supreme Court. (CHB) "His strong reluctance raises questions: Is he trying to protect criminal activity by Donald Trump or himself?"

My answer is: Both. He has the insane idea that he might still run for President, despite it being an obviously forlorn endeavor. Trumpists will not support him, and no one else trusts him - except radical evangelicals. At the same time, he was up to his eyeballs in obstruction during the Trump presidency, and he knows if inquiries go beyond "why didn't you get in the car?" He's toast.

But, as the article notes: "Former Vice President Mike Pence said Wednesday that he will challenge a subpoena by the special counsel overseeing Trump investigations to compel his testimony before a grand jury — pursuing it to the Supreme Court if necessary. ...
“Let me first be clear: I’m going to fight the Biden DOJ subpoena for me to appear before the grand jury because I believe it’s unconstitutional and it’s unprecedented,” Pence told reporters in Iowa, the state that will hold the first contest of the 2024 nominating sequence.

“Never before in American history has a vice president been summoned to appear in court to testify against the president with whom they serve,” he said."

First, it is an obvious delay tactic. It is neither unconstitutional, nor unprecedented. In fact, Aaron Burr was tried for treason - by his former boss - so there is that. Moreover, it is obvious that there is nothing about the "Speech and debate" clause that would implicate his actions as Vice President. He just wants to avoid pleading the Fifth when questioned.

Pence is a sleaze of the first order.

If he believed the Constitution is the foundation of our Democracy, he would have voluntarily come forward, with anything which might be construed by any reasonable person as an assault on the Constitution and our Democracy, and testified of his concerns. That he has refused to come forward is a testament to his allegiance to himself, God, and his party before the Constitution.

I think you rather succinctly summed it up.

Pretty sure Pero's polls will show that will never happen.

You’re absolutely correct Rick. Pence is at 6% for the GOP nomination. At least that is in 3rd place. Ahead of Haley who is at 4%.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e...blican_presidential_nomination-7548.html

Pence should have stayed as Indiana’s governors instead of accepting Trump’s offer to be his VP. That tenue tarnished him beyond and possible political career. All Pence is good for is writing books nowadays. Pence was a rising star within the GOP prior to becoming Trump’s VP. He blew his future political career by accepting the VP slot.

You have a high opinion of Pence.

I see him as an inauthentic, dull speaker, of limited intelligence, and a religious zealot. His appeal is mostly to the extreme religious folks. To improve his rankings and appeal , all he has to do is say white folks are the bomb a la Steve King.

Note that all Republicans who are running and will run will have to appeal to the bigotry of the Republican base to overcome Trump's obvious bigotry. It is the sole reason Trump has control of THE BASE. Republicans know it but fear the blowback from independents (your fav).

What a world, where Republicans are forced to be dishonest because THE BASE will disown them. Kewl.

That is a Republican Party problem. Not mine. I don’t worry about or fret over things I have no control over or can’t help or do anything about. As for Pence, Republicans did see him when he was governor of Indiana as a rising star. Note my use of the word Republicans in this post and GOP in the previous one. Pence was a very popular governor of Indiana, the people who lived in Indiana loved him. Many more high-profile republicans turned Trump down when it came to his VP offer. Pence accepting was a big surprise to many political pundits. Pence was Trump’s fifth or sixth choice. I don’t think many Republicans thought Trump would win in 2016 to include Trump himself. I think Trump wanted to use the Republican nomination for a higher contract from TV and higher ratings for his reality TV show. I never watched his show, I don’t even know what it was about. I don’t care for reality TV at all preferring historical, biography and sci-fi.

I think what Democrats think of Pence is irrelevant. They’re not going to vote for him or for any republican candidate even if that candidate was mother Terresa. That’s just the way it is. Same for Republican not voting for any democrat. For me, it’s all about what independents think, especially since they make up 40% of the electorate today as the two major party’s bases continue to shrink. Independents have risen from 30% in 2006 up to 42% if Gallup and pew research are to be believed.

What do I think of Pence? I placed him in the has been, irrelevant category, his political career is done. He’s basically a non-entity to me.

One only has to look at what was going on behind the scenes at FOX to understand the Republicans' fear. They were well aware that they were spreading blatantly false nutjob voting conspiracy gibberish, but they were afraid of losing "market share" to nuttier outlets like NutsMax and OneAssholeNews. If they couldn't lie to their consumers, no one would watch them.

The same dynamic infests the GOP. They can no longer field a relatively rational candidate like Romney or McCain (even though both were abysmal in my eyes) because they are afraid of losing the "deplorables". They've been running on lies, dystopian visions, and corruption for so long, they don't recognize reason any more.

Consider, Trump and DeSantis are the top candidates right now. Liz Cheney, about as conservative as anyone in the party, can't get elected as a Republican. Nikki Haley is considered "a leader" like McCarthy because they are willing to prostitute themselves to the base to get elected. It is ridiculous.

Back on the topic, though, Pence's strategy to delay his testimony as long as possible is going to hurt him and change the legal landscape, not just the election process. It is baseless, it is corrupt, it is self-serving, and it is incredibly dishonest. Hopefully, the courts will give it the shrift it deserves and rule quickly. It could be over in 6 months.

Failing his "legal" challenges, he will stand on the 5th. He is not just tangentially involved in the coup; he is the primary tool necessary for a possible successful coup. I think he will therefore apply a self incrimination defense in order to not answer any questions, and especially those which would implicate Trump as alleged de facto leader of the coup.

There is a whole quantum level of dishonesty among a large group of Republicans when Democracy is on the line.

Apparently WSJ editors agree with my conclusion (he will provide no useful testimony) but for different reasons they believe he should not have been issued a subpoena. While he may not produce the glue between Trump and the conspiracy plot, I believe every Republican involved should be on record, exposing their lack of Democratic patriotism, and adherence to a cult figure.

I don't get it. The Republican Party put on an insurrection which failed and only a handful of people apparently cares. If it doesn't have the aroma of the death of Democracy, a lot of folks need a nasal rinse.

They have ample evidence without Pence's testimony. Meadows was way more involved than Pence, and he's going to sing like a bird to avoid a 20+ year sentence. If he does not make a deal, he's still going to be in prison LONG after Trump is dead, for nothing.

The one thing that would insure this never happens again is not to put conspirators in prison. It's holding a 14th amendment hearing and disqualifying all the insurectionists and their supporters from ever holding office again. That would keep us a democratic republic for the next 100 years.

It’s classic ConROT that so many Conservatives, who claim to be Christians, think so poorly of Carter, who in my opinion was the most Christian of all the Presidents.

I am not one who thinks that religion of any kind is a rational or good thing (believing in an impossible and factless fantasy creation as a basis for being a good person makes no sense to me). But Jimmy actually gave Christianity a good name by being a truly good person. He would have been that even without his religious facade.

Pence is not a good Christian, and not a very good person - kind of an empty zombioid lamely hoping for “greatness”. Not much appeal there for anyone, not even brand name Christians.

Trump’s appeal is still much of a mystery to me, and he makes it glaringly obvious that for most of the flock, hypocrisy and gullibility is the Lord’s will.

That was WSJ's opinion. What they have is testimony from secondary players. None of the principles have come forward with damning testimony. They all took the legal obstruction path.

Yeah and lots of talking legal pundits assured the public Weisselberg would be a talking parrot, and yet he fell on his sword and is languishing in Rikers, so I am not so convinced any of the principle coup conspirators will provide meaningful testimony. Check out people like Navarro and Eastman. They both continue to maintain their planks of the plot were legal and justified.

Sounds good but of all of these candidates who ran for office and were involved in the attack on the capitol or involved as low level participants in the coup, only one was removed from candidate qualification lists. The favorite legal response was "I can't remember". And no one is interested in bringing current members of Congress before any ethics or legal panel to expose their involvement in the coup.

Basically a large number of Republicans supported an insurrection which failed and received no legal consequences for their actions and yet are considered heroes for the cause in their own party. Now they will have internal armed support from members of Congress the next time insurrectionists assault the Capitol.

Nope. I see no reason for celebration. Even if Smith can bring a compelling, incontrovertible case before the public, the insurrectionists have and will become even more brazen and emboldened to pursue the path of non-peaceable transition of power. THE BASE of the Republican Party has leveraged their position to extort those who lack the integrity to face them and stand up for Democracy. This is not a good look for Democracy and it doesn't bode well as to it's health.

On the other hand, taking the 5th means you believe you committed a crime. Would they risk it all at a trial, or would they fold and get a much reduced sentence for cooperation. We shall see, but probably not until some of them are indicted. Coming soon to a courtroom near you.

All the privilege claims so far are batting zero, including ones that get to the Supreme Court.

Here's the problem. Suppose I plead the 5th. Do you have any evidence that I had in point of fact committed a crime? If no, then there would be no recourse on your part, if yes then you wouldn't need my testimony regarding my actions.

I believe that is precisely the problem prosecutors have with any Trump investigations. Unless the principles admit to their illegal actions, then I suspect there is not much a prosecutor can do, except try and extort testimony. But as we have seen all the principles involved with Trump have fallen on their swords to protect Trump. All that is left is circumstantial evidence of a crime. Is it enough to convince a jury? I don't know. This is precisely why I believe any prosecutor who brings charges had better have an iron clad case and a truly objective jury (one without any MAGA-heads).

Examples of non-objective juries would include the Senate during impeachment proceedings. Had the defendant been any one except Trump, that defendant would have been convicted in both cases. But because Senate Republicans had to placate THE BASE, they were compelled to acquit.

The Republican base is the most powerful group of people in America. In the next election THE BASE will have an inside man so to speak, with an armed contingent of accomplices in the House. I'll let the reader's imagination do the rest.

Been there. Done that. Do not like the end result!!

This is always the case in RICO prosecutions. It would not be a RICO prosecution if witnesses didn't try to cover for each other. In this case, they have all those emails, text messages, and paper documents. Those are actual evidence, not testimony not eye witness accounts. People greatly overrate testimony: Co-conspirators lie. Eye witnesses make false identifications by accident. But there is a mountain of hard evidence. Like a taped phone call in Georgia. Like forged "electoral results" sent to the feds. Like the documents Haba sent to the DOJ swearing under penalty of perjury that all government records had been returned. Like all those bank, insurance company, and tax records Trump sent to other people in order to commit bank, insurance, and tax fraud. He even filed fraudulent tax returns with both New York and the IRS. Filing a fraudulent state tax return is a different crime than filing a fraudulent federal tax return, so he can be tried for both.

Maybe a corrupt Supreme Court will overturn his federal convictions, but his New York convictions would have to be overturned by the New York Supreme Court or pardoned by the New York governor. Not a chance.

Pence's hypocrisy: “I think the American people deserve my story” and yet he will fight the grand jury subpoena all the way to the Supreme Court. On ridiculous legal grounds, so his chance of getting away with it is very slim. This is nothing but an attempt to placate Trump's base, for when Trump is convicted and Pence runs in 2024.

I think he'll tell all in court, as soon as he has a legal excuse. And he's too religious to lie, not to mention Trump tried to get him killed.