For us old farts here is a question.

Is your retirement everything that you thought it would be?

So far, for me it has exceeded my expectations. I am sure some of that is not having to work for or answer to someone else anymore (except for my wife.)

Even with the unpleasant winter weather I am able to keep busy and not feel like I should be doing something, anything.

My days are as full as I want them right now, and, starting at the end of January I will be starting some volunteer work for the Audubon Society of Greater Cleveland.

So, do manage to keep busy and do you have regrets about your retirement?

If not do have any advice for people considering retirement, early or otherwise?

I have two pieces of advice for anyone contemplating retirement:

1. Have a plan on how you will spend your time because you will have a lot of it.

2. Maintain some structure to your day.

Because of choices made early on my retirement plan is to keep my law practice going.

If you enjoy what you are doing, great.

This thread had become moribund, but seemed like the right place for me to interject some experience. Some of you have heard this story before (a retiree's lament), but bear with me. My wife was forced to medically retire at 55, after a botched (in my view) procedure left her with a permanent tracheostomy. I was, at the time, in an Army civilian position that unexpectedly came to an end for budgetary reasons. I then finished my military career with a new Active Duty assignment, retiring at only 53. I spent about a year contemplating "new" career paths, including studying to become a financial planner. That experience, however, literally taught me that I didn't need to work anymore. So, living off savings and investments (until my military retirement kicked in), I joined my wife in "retirement".

Shortly after retirement, after paying off the mortgage, we bought a small RV, a Travato. In the nearly 5 years since we have put over 60,000 miles on it, which, for those who know RVs, is a LOT. We've covered most Western States, and the "Northern Tier" West of the Mississippi. So, travel being one of my passions, that itch is being scratched. We also visit Disney at least twice a year, taking friends or family whenever we can, and have a timeshare we visit once a quarter.

I have given up being my own landscape and house maintainer, now hiring those services from others (it is time for a new roof, new fence, and new "lawn guy" - I had to fire the last one, sadly). It's more expensive, but it saves me from falling from roofs and being laid up from overexertion. For a time I drove a truck for a friend who was starting a new company (now defunct, he wouldn't take my advice).

My wife is after me to "downsize" (I think we are just right-sized) and wants to move to a "retirement community" like her (older) sister is contemplating. We've visited some, and while they have some advantages (activities, food, limited medical support), the average age is literally two decades older than me. I told my wife they'll refer to us as "the kids" for at least a decade. The rent for a unit 1/3d the size of our house is three times our current monthly expenses - and that doesn't include that vaunted medical support. Thank you, NO!

But, truthfully, I have entered a doldrums of sorts - I've ridden my motorcycle a total of once in the last two years, and that was to a car show - and my circle of friends is shrinking. I read a lot, chat/post on the internet, and visit friends whenever I can. We just joined the community "Senior Activity Center", but have yet to attend any activities - that may help.

Anyway, that's my story, I'm sticking to it, and I hope this reanimates the thread. You may now outdo me, ridicule me, sympathize, or suggest alternative lifestyles. I'm open to suggestion.

Jon, since you've now let the cat out of the bag re Disney visits, next time you go see The Mouse, you are required to allow us to take you guys out to lunch or dinner, because we are only about ten miles from Disneyland.
I'd say "breakfast" was an alternate choice except Karen does not wake up till around eleven.

"I raised my two kids, up at 5 AM every weekday, I am done with early rising"

Only thing that gets her up early is a VA appointment!

Anyway, Karen and I are feeding you two next time you get down here.

Nah, Jeff, he comes down here to Florida! The real Disney.

And he never comes to visit me so don't get your hopes up.

60,000 miles and he never came to see where Billy the Kid grew up, and the town where Ol' Dan Tucker was Sheriff? And America's first wilderness, and where Aldo Leopold saw the Green Fire fade from the wolf's eyes? And the birthplace of The Trollworks, from whence deliverance from Global Warming shall spring forth?

He may be senile...

You retired better than me. I was in construction, a carpentry contractor. At the end, specifically a stairbuilder. I built houses for 35 years. Mostly upscale stuff, this is the Disney area and has consistently been one of the fastest growing areas in the state. Lotta money and a lotta jobs here.

The end was 2008 when the housing market crashed. The month I voted for Obama I couldn't make the rent on my shop, a 5000 sq ft unit in an industrial park, full of lumber and machinery. The employees helped me move everything out and we locked the doors. I was 55. Since I was an employee of my corporation I was able to collect unemployment. When that ran out there was nothing but food stamps. I found a few side jobs but no one had any money to get repairs done and certainly none to build anything new.

Sort of forced into semi-retirement/unemployed.

I was broke, in debt, eating white bread and vienna sausages. There was no work and I sat right here at this desk and went slowly mad. Suicidal depression is not a happy place but I went there anyway. My ex had me committed to a mental institution. You learn things about people in the psychiatric ward, things you never wanted to know.
After a few weeks there they let me come home with some pretty awesome drugs. There were social worker visits and counseling required.

All the while my physical health is going downhill faster than my mental health. I had problems with my legs. They just weren't working right. Doctors ran tests and found nothing. Blood tests on the psych ward showed I was diabetic, there was something wrong with my liver, and a childhood epilepsy thing came back in the form of dizzy spells.

Now...It aint like I didn't see all this coming, divination was my hobby even then. Before we closed the doors of Absolute Hardwood Stairs Inc. I had filed for disablity, figured I'd get ahead of the rush. Eventually I landed a job washing dishes and doing prep work in a Thai restaurant. Made about $100 a week and only if the owner had it to spare. Maybe $30 if it was a bad week. Times were hard.

One night I came home from work and there was a car in my driveway. My former housekeeper and her 15 year old daughter. Homeless, needed a place to stay. Eventually she abandoned the daughter and went somewhere out of state.
So on top of everything else I had a teenager to raise.

I was 58 when the disability claim finally went through. I quit the restaurant and retired with nothing but a somewhat meager Social Security check. But compared to the way I'd been living it was like manna from heaven. And it came with Medicare!

I've got a nice house, it's paid for. Bankruptcy dissolved all my debts. My car's paid for. I get $1240.00 dollars a month and it's plenty, I'm even able to set a little aside for emergencies and have a couple thousand in savings. In a pinch my ex would help me out if I needed it but mostly I don't. The kid is 25 now and just moved to Maine to marry her girlfriend. It was a sad parting but I'm happy for her. I'm an empty nester now and finally I can walk around the house in my boxers!

I am absolutely loving retirmenent. I was built for this! It's like being a teenager again! Freedom without responsibilities. I can sit on my ass all day long, drink coffee, smoke weed, and eat marvelous food because I'm one of the "amateur chefs" who bakes his own bread and makes everything from scratch. I'm pretty crippled up now and can only be on my feet for a couple hours a day, I can't really go anywhere or do anything, the risk of falling is too great and I refuse to get in a wheelchair. But I don't especially want to go anywhere or do anything. I love it right here with the dog at my feet and the chickens clucking out back, an occasional rooster crowing or the rabbit banging on the door wanting to go in or out.

I have found peace. I'm content and happy.

I have no one to blame for my "retirement" except myself.
But it is not quite so terrible, it's just not what I envisioned.
I was hoping/expecting to keep being able to do my job well into my seventies.

For a few brief years in the 1980's/90's I was making almost three thousand a week as a unionized film editor. During especially busy weeks where I was getting outside work I sometimes pulled down as much as five or even six thousand a week, but stupidly I chose to get most of that in cash more often than not, when doing it above board would have helped my Social Security.
The 1989 Leon Russell VHS was selling like crazy, but again I put that in my pocket or sunk it directly into more gear.
Sloppy financials, I didn't bother with expensing stuff properly.

At least my above board union work and above board production gigs filled the gap. Then the union gigs fizzled away into nothing thanks to the rise of cable and satellite. I didn't have enough credits on the experience roster and eventually returned to doing my own work, a lot of music videos and steady VHS duplication jobs. It wasn't three grand a week but it was more than enough.
I put a lot of it up my nose, there's the really stupid part.
That all ended 25 years ago, but I wasted a lot of money.
What I didn't party away I invested in even more equipment, a LOT of equipment.

The 1994 Northridge Quake wiped me out and I fell back on IT work as a substitute. I lost even more money, thanks to Chuck Quackenbush's sleazy backroom deal with the insurance companies.
I got two cents on the dollar for an almost 300 thousand dollar loss.
Most of that equipment was damaged and now worthless.

Finally after leaving L.A. and moving in with Karen (Texas) I started to reinvent as a digital video guy and got back into production and editing again around 2002.
The 2005 Leon Russell re-release on DVD became a steady revenue source once again.

We moved back to SoCal with the idea that I would resurrect a lot of old production connections and it worked for a little while but my health began to sag, specifically my eyesight and hearing. There isn't much market for half-blind/half deaf directors of photography with bad knees and diabetes, so by around age 58 or 59 work started to slowly fizzle away.
My last "real" professional production shooting gig was back in 2016.



At least the Leon show was still selling steadily.
Meanwhile with what I inherited from my mother my brothers and I invested in real estate, so...another small but steady revenue stream.

So together between selling my little DVD and getting income from real estate I have a couple/sometimes a few thousand a month coming in. Together with Karen's VA pension it is enough.
I doubt I will get the full SS amount but I guess it will be a few hundred or maybe as much as a thousand but that's still a couple of years away.

Eventually as we all age and if the market goes well, us three brothers will liquidate our real estate and reinvest in something else.

In retrospect, staying in Texas and investing in a home in Texas was also a mistake. We barely got above water after the 2008 debacle and didn't make very much on selling our starter home down there, whereas had I insisted on bringing Karen and the kids out here in the 90's we might have purchased a home here when it wasn't quite yet outrageous, and by now we would almost have a paid off home worth plenty more.

But the house we have now has appreciated quite a bit so if the day comes where we downsize, we will definitely make a decent chunk on the sale. To be honest though, I wouldn't mind just staying here in this house till the end. It is fully handicap accessible.
Let the kids profit off the sale.

I don't know if the Leon show will continue to be a revenue stream for long, that stuff is hard to quantify. If a generation "rediscovers the old stuff" it may enjoy a big revival and I want my kids to understand how to leverage that for their own edification, but it is difficult to help them understand. He's some old guy with long white hair who plays music they don't relate to at the moment, and the whole thing with the technical aspects leaves them mouth agape. In a few years DVD's will be obsolete so if they sell the product it will probably be a download.
My customers are all pretty old so most of them don't understand digital downloads. Many of them are confused by DVD's and Blu-Ray is a mystery to them.
I've had hundreds of old farts asking me to re-release on VHS over the years, it's hilarious.

All in all though, I consider myself lucky, but I would much rather still be an old fart with a really nice camera and eagle eye for instant focus.

Retirement? What is it?

It is bliss. It is heaven on earth.
You've probably never woken up in the morning and thought to yourself "I don't want to go to work today"

I, on the other hand, woke up every single morning of my life and thought "I don't want to go to work today" except for when I was a kid and had to go to school, I didn't want to do that either.
Retirement is when that silly notion of "working" no longer even crosses your mind. It's more like "what sort of mischief shall I get up to today?"

Ride around on the mower some? Cool! Do some pressure washing maybe? It's like playing in the sprinklers! Or just get high and look at some porn...Retirement is freedom.

Here's Karen meeting Haskell Wexler, the man who shot most of
"One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"(among many others)
She met him about a year before he passed away at 93.



The man worked every day until his last one, and I always hoped I could maintain my health enough to do the same.
So I am getting used to the idea of retirement but it wasn't my first choice.

I am retired against my will, but I am trying out lots of stuff to keep myself occupied and engaged as much as possible.

It is wonderful. I remember it perfectly when my boss asked to talk to me about my next project. I sat in his office and he said: "What we are going to do is terminate you instead." I had turned 65 and they didn't want the hassle of paying some workers for full health and some for Medicare Part B. Which is really kind of dumb because Medicare is SO much cheaper. I think he felt guilty about it since I had worked for him at three different companies, but I had a huge grin on my face as I cleaned out my desk.

I saved and invested quite a bit more than 15% of my income, always took the full 401K, IRAs, etc. My wife and I bought houses without selling the old one several times. So I really didn't need the money. Getting terminated was freedom. I do miss the company of my coworkers, and they have never invited me to any of their holiday parties or even to lunch since that day, which is kind of weird. I think maybe they all feel bad about getting rid of me, but I couldn't be happier about it.

Meanwhile, I have not been idle. I never have to think about going to work again, but I do keep busy. For example I installed a solar electric system in my backyard. And I don't mean I had somebody else do it. I rented the excavator, dug the footing holes, built the frame, held the hose for the concrete pump, installed the panels and wired them, dug the electric conduit trench, installed the grid-tie inverter, wired the whole thing, got the permits myself, and so forth. My only outside "help" was to get a public engineer to rubber stamp the plans I drew for $25. I've also done some major renovation projects on our rentals, and got my mother's house ready to sell. I am also now a breeder of Yellow Labs, which is fun.

There's always something else to do. I wonder how it all got done when I was at work five days a week! Still, it's no rush and I can just take a day off any time I want. I can sleep until 10. Stay up until 4 if I want. Go out to eat any time I want, even if my wife has other plans. My general health is pretty good in spite of the MS. My mind is still sharp. (I can do level 5 sudoku puzzles.) I still get ideas and build inventions, usually just for me. I've been thinking about writing another book, this one about being your own solar contractor.

I've been retired since 94. To me retirement is putting off to tomorrow what you can do today. I also work more since being retired than I did when in the military. Wife worked, so I had the pleasure of both the inside, the outside, the youngest and the windows...

But now, the wife is retired, the inside is less, the outside is the same, the youngest is married and the windows have been put off till next quarter.

That is retirement.

It's a deal, although our next trip is to Disney World, so I have to cajole Greger to meet me somewhere...

Interesting reads...
I retired in January 2018. Gave notice on the 2nd, done on the 11th. Normally management was asked to give 3 months notice, but with my experience the last two years at work - from upper management, not those I worked with - I didn’t feel the need. I did keep my boss in the loop early on since he made the last few years tolerable. Planned to stay til 65, but left a little after 63.

That said, I love it. Some said leaving in January in a Michigan winter was nuts, but I have no problem keeping busy and rekindling some long dormant hobbies is a joy.

I surely agree with the structure bit...combined with a big dose of selfish freedom.

1st...and surely understandable by this group...don’t sit back and watch or read about news all day. Minimal doses for sanity sake. Enough to keep up but not enough to make a news addict crazy. Turn off the morning news when wifey wanders to work. Maybe take a peek in the early afternoon.

2nd...I spent several months - winter - cleaning out paperwork & crap I really let pile up. It doesn’t stop & it can be cathartic.

3rd...first indulgence to go along with hobby life...new electric guitar, amp, accessories...and relearn. Had a handful of guitars - different types - hanging on bedroom walls. Played a lot in & after college but since then they only seemed to come out when my head needed a fix...surely not often enough for the head fixes I should have had. What I play I write. Relearned a lot of my old songs and when the mood struck, wrote new ones. Put them in the form of videos so I could share. Head to guitar to GarageBand to video to YouTube to Facebook for friends. Therapeutic... but a good session after wifey heads to work can keep me going til mid afternoon when it’s time to put toys away.

4th...don’t do the third thing every day. Get out - all year - walk, take pictures, headphones on...bluetoothed to my phone, enjoy & stay active...STAY ACTIVE!

No more counting...

Be a house husband to the nth degree. As long a wifey works (another 8 months?) dinner on table when she gets home...She texts “leaving”, I respond “K”, and I have 35 minutes...pretty good at it. I keep the house clean, keep laundry in control, keep our two acre yard maintained, all that goes with it...that structure thing. And I let her take the lead as to what she wants to do with her non-work time...with or without me.

Stay in contact with friends I truly appreciate. I have a few planned lunches each month and it great to visit. I have regular sharing with friends on various social media platforms...but also limit the time I spend on them. Wifey might disagree. But it has allowed me to rekindle associations with old Navy (not the store) and college friends. At times, it feels like being in our 20’s again...til pictures happen.

Camp (small camper) when wifey’s vacation schedule allows...and sometimes when it doesn’t. Too much beauty in Michigan not to enjoy it. Done it all our lives & it’s often combined with getting together with kids, other family & those rekindled friends. Gonna be at the Straits for two weeks staring August 25th...in the middle, we’ll walk the Mackinac Bridge on Labor Day...over & back...10 miles. My tenth time.

Funny thing happened in 2018 when I went in to get an absentee ballot for the election...came out as an election worker. So instead of filling & mailing my ballot (which I did), I spent 18 hours at the precinct on Election Day. 6 AM to midnight. It was a long, interesting, rewarding experience...though the last four hours of balancing, reporting, binding & waiting was a bit tiring. Been invited already to do 4 elections next year. Still thinking about it. Not sure I can handle the stress of the presidential election and stay calm & neutral... also was offered the position of Township Clerk. The existing elected official was resigning for business purposes and asked me to take over. Thought about it seriously, but wifey said “no, No, NO NO NO NO!”.

Mentioned wifey may retire next spring. She’ll be 62 in April. Thanks to my too many moves, despite her being a nurse for 40 years, she’s never been somewhere long enough to have a vested pension. And getting kids raised & educated seemed more important than thinking about 401Ks back then. So she is nervous about it. I’ve laid it out in spreadsheets for her and pointed out that we will do a lot better than a lot of other folks we know. I have a good pension, have a good SS amount pending, have a decent cushion 401K, and she has a reasonable SS expectation...and a small 401K. House is paid off. Toys are supplied. We have no extravagant travel plans or other needs.

Built a 48x32 pole barn in preparation for my retirement (and she honestly loves it). Hold 3 vehicles & the camper, kayaks, tools, toolbench & storage, 50” tv, Bluetooth speakers in the rafters which love to blare the music on my phone, a fridge recently purchased for a family reunion last July 4th. Holds the exercise toys taken from the house...weights, elliptical, treadmill (though they seemed to get more use in the house). In other words, it has more crap than I ever plan to move. Building it pretty much put the final stake in the homestead.

I am very happy in retirement, but I always felt comfortable relaxing, being lazy or active, being selfish or involved. One of our three kids lives two miles away & I regularly play with those three granddaughters. Another kid gave us two grandsons...an hour away. Camped with them mid July. Third kid is married, a chef & lives in our vacationing region. Looking forward to the day Liz is retired and we can wander at will. I think she’s more concerned than me. Tried to explain the difference being when she’s free, our plans aren’t confined to weekends and the 15 days a year she has as “personal time off”. It’ll grow on her. The Labor Day camping trip will make for some interesting conversations & planning. It always does. Might get her retired a bit earlier...I wish.

There...that’s my short response. Forgot how wordy I was did ya now? Thanks for having me back at times.

Well dang, I thought you were going to Disneyland in Anaheim, CA

Greger said you guys go to Orlando!
Well if you ever DO get out to Anaheim, we're just up the road.

I still plan on it. I tried to get her to sneak down there this month while they said it wasn't busy (after Galaxy's Edge opened). Instead I am scheduling contracts for roof, fence, etc. Tree guys arrive in an hour. I'm a bit nervous. I'm not good with change at home. Love change going out and doing things - I try to do something new every day - but want to have stability at home.

And BC! Welback! I, too, have a plethora of guitars that I plink on. I just added a slew from an estate sale of a friend's uncle. He had gotten into it late in life. I now have (ahem) two classical, two electric, two electric-acoustic, an accoustic, a 12-string and two ukuleles. And two keyboards. I have built a music studio in the old game room, but I am having a devil of a time getting the software to cooperate!

You guys, I have a Roland keyboard.
Why can't the two of you just move to L.A. so we ca jam!
The wives will love it!!

My collection consists of an electric (Ibanez), a classical (Yamaha - first purchase at Subic Bay), a 12 string (Alvarez), an acoustic (Ovation), a mandolin, a bass (Fender), a couple ukes, a 49 key Nektar midi keyboard, an old piano, my wife’s flute and son’s coronet. Recently upgrade from GarageBand to Logic Pro X on my Mac. Fun!

If you're in the mood for torture...

kool. Next project!

I recently learned "Freebird" on the piano. I was playing and my son yelled, "play freebird!" As a joke. The next time he did that, I broke out out. Funny thing, though. He didn't know what I was playing, since he didn't actually know the song.

And to the more serious side, my primary retirement concerns:
Health
Health insurance costs
Health care processes
General aging effects
Minimizing the ultimate effect/burden on my wife & kids
Long term direction of this country

My 9 year old granddaughter said she was going to look me up on YouTube and I recommended she wait.

My cousin John is the lead vocalist in an Allman Brothers tribute band that bears the distinction of being the only Allman Brothers tribute band to ever get the blessing of one of the original Allman brothers. Gregg Allman stopped by to sit in on a couple of tunes once, and gave his support.

I am totally stoked but surprised. John is a self made wealthy man who earned every penny of his fortune, and when he retired he went straight back into this, his first love. And he pimped his ride big time.

I think he actually works harder in that band than he did running his company for thirty years.

It’s easy to work hard in love.

Been retired for over 20 years. No problems, seem very busy and have spent these years trying to figure that one out. I have come to the conclusion that one reason for busy is that it takes me about 3 times as long to do the simplest thing. This remains a fact AND a mystery. Money doesn't seem to be a problem nor does my health. My memory continues to decline. The VA gifts me with occasional 8 hour memory tests. They tell me I am in the upper 1% for my age group so I have stopped feeling sorry for myself and have started to feel sorry for the other 99%.

Not unlike the ancient Greeks (I am not Greek) I also deplore younger generations for all sorts of stuff that, on reflection, is a complete and utter waste of time.

Other than that.....................

My plan for retirement was to do the things I didn't have time for when I was working. I find, though, that I waste more time than I used to, and I end the day not having done the things I wanted to. I thought I'd do more writing, recording, reading, and puttering, gardening, woodworking, music lessons. I don't do those things, or go riding either bikes or motorbikes. I was/am avid about both. My honey stays up late and sleeps in. I have mornings alone 7-8, then my bath before our son gets up, but try to stay quiet. Son gets up around 9, and we walk the dogs most mornings, weather permitting. Then at 10 he's in the tub and I watch/exercise his dog (she's very high energy!). By the time he leaves for work half the day is already gone! Afternoons are typically honey-do time. I'm just not organized enough.

Days on the road, at the condo (time share), or on vacation are actually more productive! I write music, do research, get out and about. And I learn so much.

Ran into an acquaintance at a grocery store a few weeks & had a short discussion on retirement. We came away with the short summation “it’s fun & productive, it can be productive fun”. Just not always both at the same time. I find, with most of the day to myself, I let my mood dictate the path. I mostly like & trust my moods. They certainly guide my music. Just hafta know how to walk happily away from some of them.

I laughed at your ‘half the day gone’ comment. My wife & kids would tell you one of my standard weekend comments, usually around 10 AM, was ‘half the day is already wasted’ as I waited impatiently for them to get up & around.

Pondered - thanks for the comment about wasting time. It's becoming a huge time sink for me.

I am not retired, not officially, but I've developed some cognitive issues which may or may not heal over time. I am currently on (private insurance) disability. At 59 you might say I'm unofficially retired.

Given the situation I often feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, although I have no idea what that other shoe might be. I love not having to beat my head against the wall every day to try to fake skills I no longer have. I love getting a reasonable amount of sleep.

I would not trade an uncertain retirement for the certain income of my old job. My natural rhythm is to start moving sometime in mid-morning; 9AM meetings are a crime against my humanity. I am re-learning how to cook, I am reading again, I have an electric piano waiting for me/giving me side-eye; I even enjoy cleaning my apartment. I love being semi-unofficially-retired, and I suspect that other-shoe-dropping feeling is one that we all share, more related to the world than to myself.

I also think the world will open up a lot after I have a knee replacement, Real Soon Now.

Two comments really resonated with me, Julia: that shoe-drop feeling, and cooking! My wife and I have been cooking more, and cooking more together, which is a great deal of fun. We're trying "Hello Fresh" right now, but don't plan on continuing with it because a) too expensive, but really b) just too much packaging. We may take a shot at "Blue Apron", but I suspect we'll find the same thing. It's fun, but I can't get over the waste. We used to be a member of a local CSA, but with all our travel kept giving away so much of the produce, or it would go bad before we got a chance to prepare something with it. Honey has a habit of "shopping with good intentions" - buying things we should eat, but it being neglected in favor of convenience food. I prefer to buy tonight's ingredients when we want to cook it.

That impending footware clatter is omnipresent. We have reasonable resources, but her health is fragile and I can imagine just one incident biting deep. I had a mini-stroke 10 years ago, so I know I'm not immune, either, but I have the VA as a fallback resource to protect the family resources. I'm/We're in "transitional retirement", not working, but not getting all of our anticipated pension benefits either. That's the downside of "early retirement". We each have a State retirement to come, and I'm not getting SS for a decade, yet. In the meantime we're filling the gap with savings. The impending downturn is scary, financially.

Your comment about packaging and buying with good intentions really resonated over here.

PACKAGING!!
OMG WTAF is with the obsession with cardboard? My wife decided to replace the O-ring in our blender and she ordered the part, and this three and a half inch O-ring came to us in a cardboard box INSIDE ANOTHER cardboard box, which was filled with inflatable plastic air cushion packs...for a rubber O-ring!

We're drowning in cardboard and I finally held a brief informal family meeting over it, by summoning the bunch to the living room where they saw the pile of cardboard generated by a month's purchases. We were forced to get a second blue recycle bin due to the amount of cardboard we're dealing with.

My daughter decided that we needed to eat a more healthy diet and she took the initiative and without consulting, returned with a lot of stuff that "makes you feel good" but which no one really wanted.
And it sat in the fridge waiting to be eaten, and was ultimately thrown out. Most of it was exotic, with Korean writing, so we didn't even know what most of it was half the time.
Another meeting...are we buying stuff that signals we are doing the right thing but which NO ONE wants?

Hate to say it but online purchasing is not environmentally sustainable. Millions of trucks delivering cat litter and O-rings is not sustainable.

Jeffery - I try to limit my online purchases to books (apologies to the independent bookstore down the street; I just can't afford you.) The last three non-book purchases I made arrived in boxes close to a reasonable size. I think enough people are screaming about ridiculous packaging that it's beginning to take effect. I hope so, anyway. Like you, I've had more than my share of the stupendously-huge full-of-air boxes.

Most of my non-book orders are due to mobility issues. Large stores are a pain in the rear, both from a physical and mental point of view (what is all this "shite," and who's buying it?) I think the overproduction of crap and aggressive marketing of same are just as bad as the on-line packaging.

If the local-chain hardware store doesn't sell it, I'm likely to buy on-line.

For me that would eat up two hours and about three gallons of gas. I shop on the 3rd when my check hits then around the 15th for whatever I've run out of. With luck those two trips to town are the only time I leave here.

I live on the equivalent of $7.21 an hour. And I live very very well.

I raise chickens for eggs, bake my own bread, and make everything from scratch. I pre-cook lots of stuff and Freeze meal sized portions. I make huge vats of bone broth and chicken stock and freeze it in quart containers for future soups and stews. Chez Mark's Kitchen has one of the best fast food burgers on the planet and breakfast here is a Michelin star experience. Fried chicken is ALWAYS on the menu and the wings are incredible! I can make a tri-tip you'd swear was prime rib.

I live nestled into the woods on a meandering creek, a wide lawn and an orange grove in front of me. I have some neighbors nearby, not close enough to see their houses but near enough to hear their roosters crow. Twice a day I walk a quarter mile out from the house to the mailbox with my dog. Seldom see anybody, occasionally might see a car go by on the clay road. Neighbor might come out to the fence and we'll gossip a spell.

I don't worry about other shoes dropping. They will drop and I will die. I'm okay with that. But until that happens I plan to enjoy every single minute of every day. I worry about you folks who have significant others. You should get a dog before that happens. Dog can get you through anything.

I do envy your privacy, Greger, although most people would say I'm too isolated in the middle of my apartment complex. But I find myself moving (rapidly) from introvert to hermit, even though I may speak to only 3 or 4 people a week.

Two hours and three gallons of gas if I run in to ace hardware for an o-ring.

One truck to a bunch of houses to deliver or countless cars started and driven to the store. Sometimes store to store in search of just the right item.

Cardboard is 100% recyclable.

The box is in a box so no one can see whats sitting on your doorstep before you bring it in. It might just be an o-ring but it might be a $6000 camera.

The packers at Amazon don't randomly decide which box to put it in. The computer tells them which box they have to use. Sometimes it's weird and they roll their eyes when they pack it just like you do when you unpack it.

Couple days ago, Jerry, my UPS man delivered a new television. It wasn't in a bigger box and was pretty obviously a television. He rang the doorbell and when I answered he said "It's pretty heavy. Where you want it?"
By the time I wobbled into the living room behind him he had it open and was pulling it out of the box. He put the legs on it plugged the PS4 in and was out the door in under 5 minutes.

It's not just sustainable it's preferable for most things. We'll always need greengrocers and butcher shops for fresh ingredients, meats, and dry goods, but even these local establishments have begun offering home deliveries again, just like you could back when America was great! Huge inefficient malls are closing in favor of a system that works out better for everyone.

I don't even see that many unless I go to town. I talk to the dog a lot because your voice will get rusty if you don't use it some. Like if you answer the phone after three days of monk-like silence and can only croak like a frog.

Well now that we have TWO blue recycle bins instead of the always-full ONE blue bin, a LOT of cardboard will be making its way to the recyclers.

It's a rather stupid problem to have..our garbage company refuses to take cardboard unless it is IN the BIN, even if it is flattened and sitting ON TOP of the bing. It has be IN the bin.

We used to have little bins, when we lived in town. Out in the country we have 96 gallon machine-liftable bins with attached lids. We have two of those so we can have one out on the street for pickup, and still have one by the house to toss stuff in. We get the same amount of cardboard as all of you, but if we miss a weekly pickup, it's no problem.

Apologies if I've missed parts of the discussion. Trying hard to catch up.
RE: What Retirement is for us.
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We never expected to be this old, or to be reasonably healthy.

We have spent the time to deal with the future, and are at peace with whatever might happen. Myself or jeanie.

22 years growing up and college.
30 years employed
30 years retired (frugally)
61 years married

Absolutely the happiest days of our lives.

Moved into our CCRC 15 years ago at age 68. Best decision, as we're comfortable and well adjusted to life without worries.

It was a bit of a tough decision at the time... live in the homestead 'til we died or be safe... with the ability to adjust to whatever might happen. We love living in Liberty Village... Just now came back from a driveway party with about 25 good friends who live here in the Villas. Same age group, same interests. Naturally many widows/widowers in a 300+ population so the transition, when it happens, is easier than living alone.

No downsides, and we will not be a burden on our four sons and their families.
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Our home is already handicap equipped so we may try to stay in it for a long time. But we are aware that life can change.
We're very lucky so far.

Happy all is going well. At one time post retirement moves had the possibility for going from mid Michigan back to the UP. Love its beauty & most vacations take us there. I think once a person acclimates to snow, it’s not that tough. After plopping a 48x32’ polebarn in the middle of our two acres, it feels as though the anchor was dropped...but I also realize (hope) lots of time & possibilities are yet to come.

Two brothers migrated to AZ south of Tucson. Really nice & active retirement town, and wifey loved it on her first visit. I said come back in August & tell me that. One brother still has a home & does 5-7 months of summer/fall in OH. The other does parts of July & August in northern MI where his daughter lives. I need green, water, humidity, brisk air, etc. Feel like a literal fish out of water in the SW.

I do occasionally think I may hit the day maintaining two acres of growth gets to be too much. We’ll see how much assistance we get or pay for. Once the young couple in this little semi rural stretch of homes, we are now the second oldest. All others stayed. We helped the others out as much as possible. But I don’t see the same community dynamics down the road. We’ll see. Maybe others will surprise me.

Til then, though I’ve been told I’m an introvert who has to be occasionally dragged into social situations, I feel I have a pretty good set of family & friends to consistently interact with. And I really do think that’s important. And despite all its flaws, I think that’s a big plus to this social media world...interacting with lots of others - family, friends & acquaintances - we might not otherwise much see.

I see a lot of my dad in me. Some tell me that as the opposite of a compliment, but I take it as one. I didn’t see him with a lot of friends, but he didn’t have a fear of interacting when it presented himself. If he withdrew too much, I knew how to push his buttons with simple questions meant to make him give oral pronouncements on the world around him. Others let him stew in silence. I did not like that. When he had a dog, he’d take multiple long walks per day. Sometimes the dog would come home alone. At first it was worrisome, but we soon learned that dad was simply working his way slowly through the neighborhood having conversations with anyone out & receptive. During his work life, he had few of those opportunities. When the dog had to be put down, so did his health...rapidly. The walks, the talks, his life diminished. Didn’t have to, but it did. And like me, I recognized he reflected the receptiveness of those around him. Want to interact? I’m here. Want to ignore? I’m okay with that too...though not really. I find that to be the foundation of many “introverts”.

Ramble, rant, tangents, life...SQUIRREL!

My wife gave me a new shopping philosophy today...

I wanted it.
I got it.
Get over it.

Her words...

Sounds like what Karen says. She gets the most adorable little dimpled grin on her face when she says something like that.
It's a deadly weapon.

Since we're sharing...

Odd thing is that free school and early retirement were at the top of my priority list when I was 17. And I got on the track... appointment to the Naval Academy with a possible retirement at 42 on a captain's half pay. I think in 1973 that would have been something like $40K, don't know what that is in 2019 dollars.

But I did not like life in the navy, and the shock of leaving the mountains of Idaho for 24 years of greyness, rules, and not being able to make things (I probably would have made a better Seabee than a nuclear engineer), stimulated a previously dormant critical thinking brainwave and I soon caught the bug of idealism.

Though I accumulated enough credits at university to graduate, I never took a degree, as my side-life of working to pay for school (never had any debt - different thread) became dominant and I was off in a career as a building contractor and woodworker. Always liked innovating and doing interesting things that seldom evolved into "makin' da money" - that nasty bug of idealism working its way with me.

I became a true enough environmental activist in the 80's, filing timber sale appeals on Forest Service decisions and suing the State of Idaho for mismanagement of state endowment lands. Got certified in a variety of water quality management programs, served on innumerable economic development and restorative land management project boards (none of them paying gigs), and started a 501-c-5 nonprofit in '98 to figure out how to restore forests and save rural economies at the same time. All the while taking construction jobs to pay the bills.

Today, at the ripe old age of 64, I have very little money in the bank, but have an almost embarrassingly humongous pile of assets in the form of property and equipment that I am still trying to see used in the furtherance of saving the planet - if only humanity in general would take some responsibility and pitch in to help.

So the idea of retirement is really not on the drawing board. My colleague in the biochar stuff is 80 years old and still putting in full days at the shop, inventing, designing, welding, and grinding - and dreaming about when the good ideas will finally be applied to the problems that we have created to plague ourselves with. We are both aware that he may not be in the game much longer - hell, I think the same for myself. But if he goes first and our joint mission blossoms, then his daughter will be well-fixed and can retire, or whatever she wants to do.

As for me, I am a bit worried that if I go before there are competent people involved to carry on the mission, that all of our work will be lost and my pore wife will have to clean up after me (there'll be a big auction, I reckon, and the salvage vultures will pick apart everything that we have built). Convert the dream back to its molecular structure for ten cents on the dollar.

Life is kinda weird, ain't it?

I just googled it - I'd a been making about $63K a year since 1997, for doing whatever the hell I wanted to do. If there was such a thing as going back and sticking out the Navy career, knowing the current alternative, would I have made that choice?

No...

One interesting thing about being older and a responsible person, is serving as executor and trustee for various estates and trusts. I did this for a stepmother and now I'm trustee for my mother. I can see why people would want to avoid this, for fear of being sued. I am actually trustee of two different trusts, that may have a conflict of interest. I see a legal problem in how one of these was administered before I became a trustee, and if I do something to correct the mismanagement, it will cost me. I think I will probably get sued either way! And unfortunately, the bigger of the two trusts does not include one of those poison pill provisions that cuts out anybody who sues.

While we're opening up our lives to friends, something I'm not sure I explained in any earlier posts. At age 83, am progressing on the Alzheimer route... currently stage 4. Slow moving since age 75 or so, but moving. As prepared as I can be... jeanie's aware and helps me through the tough social situations where I don't recognize people, or remember those things that would ordinarily be important.

The good thing is that we can discuss the subject, and work together to plan for the future. What used to take minutes to express in a post or a full discussion, now takes much longer...some caused by AZ, but partially caused by peripheral neuropathy... mostly a nuisance rather than a disability.

That said... when asked how retirement is? Couldn't be happier.

My Dad passed in ‘89 and putting his affairs in order with my Mom still around was pretty smooth. My Mom passed in ‘06 and that meant doing it for real. It was first assigned to one brother, but passed to another better positioned to do so. He had said the bet documentation he ever found was written by a Michigan probate judge who was tired of so many people being clueless to disjointed laws on the topic. The judge wrote it, in essence, to simplify his own job.

I've got afferent peripheral neuropathy, too. Fancy name for numb feet. Mine actually feel like I'm wearing thick socks up to mid-shins. Has advantages when you stub your toe. Big disadvantage is that I can't tell what position my feet are in so I get leg cramps that wake me up some mornings. It isn't supposed to be a symptom of MS, according to my neurologist, but what is it then? Doesn't really bother me much, but it makes long walks and standing for a long time impractical. It also gets me disabled plates for my car. Magnesium and little weed seem to help.

It's complex, in that it has a lot of steps. Checklists help, so you don't forget anything. My main rule has been to just read the will and trust, and do what it says. Fortunately, in all cases, there have been pretty complete documents written by lawyers so a lay person could understand them.

Unfortunately, in all cases, the surviving spouse has done things that did not follow what was in the trust. I see my job as ignoring that and doing what is fair in terms of the original intent of the trust. Nobody has sued so far, so I guess the beneficiaries are happy with the result. Helps that I don't pay myself, which is no big deal because I have always been one of the beneficiaries.

Not so much for the other beneficiaries. I actually had one who "cleaned" (aka "looted") his dead sister's house including tossing her will in the trash before her lawyer got there! Fortunately the lawyer found it in the trash can.

Yea, that is when you find out who the familial cockroaches are. Our solution, every beneficiary has a copy of the current wills and Lady Bird Deed.

A special Howdy to all the returnees. I'm sort of a Nug here, though I have been a lurker since around Dec 2000.

By RR/Retiree standards it seems I am still a kid I qualify for AARP, but can't get discount tickets to the movies.

I'm still licensed to practice law, but my standard response to anyone who asks is that I am doing my best to stay retired. Since I have no clients (at present), I don't maintain insurance or trust accounts that I would have to if I were running a practice and taking "retainers". I will probably voluntarily resign before I have to report again in 3 years' time. In the meantime I give free (pro bono) advice, and referrals to other attorneys, but I am seriously contemplating jumping back in to work for the ACLU, or immigrant rights. I would have to do more training (where will I find the time), but a worthy cause is a worthy cause.

But, given all the discussion of estates, I have a story about my dad. When he was a relatively new attorney, his uncle died. The family insisted that he probate/administer the estate. He didn't want to because it was not his bailiwick, but the family was insistent. He did a very meticulous job (he always did), and scrupulously followed the appropriate process, but, as happens with family sometimes, he was criticized by some members who didn't think his distribution was "fair" (obviously because they didn't get more than others). That segment of the family never got over it. He didn't either, and never administered another estate.

Ponderer, I share the same status as you when it comes to age. Because I left work with a mental disability, I'm really not anxious to tell my cousins and cousins-once-removed why I'm not working.

But if I tell people I've retired, people think I'm financially much better off than I am. (59)

The conversation usually comes up on the sidewalk in front if the church after a funeral.

I've started telling people I had the chance to trade money for time and I took it.

I just wish my eyesight, hearing, knees and ankles had held out just a little while longer. I was hoping to still be humping around camera gear as a spry seventy-year old at least part time.

My health just wouldn't cooperate. The other day I went to move all my equipment cases from one side of the garage to the other so I could better access the water heater. By the time I got all the cases down on the floor I had to take a breather for ten minutes, and my right knee was talking to me big time.

The husband of my niece is currently "borrowing" almost ALL my lighting gear collection, which was actually fairly considerable. At this point I really can't imagine ever needing to use them again, but letting them go permanently just doesn't feel right.

Of course he's extremely hunky and talented (no wonder my niece fell in love with him) and he's working with some talented crew so maybe his project will make a big chunk of coin. If it does, I'm sticking my hand out and expecting some back end action on top of my end credit.

I think the word you want is “vig.”

... or "us".

Vigorous...

Guess I need to go back over to the "what the hell is going on inside your head" thread.

I am in the process of acknowledging things I can't do anymore, but there are some things that my 27-year-old son insists I can't do, that I don't think are prohibited, and that irks me. He made me promise not to go on the roof, for example. He's afraid I'll fall off the ladder. I am, however, at the age where I should consult my doctor before starting a new exercise program...

I went through my camera gear myself about a month ago. I can't believe how much I have! I leant an entire kit to my other son's friend. (I wanted to say boyfriend, but he's trans and prefers the pronoun "They"... SO, I don't know how to describe their relationship.) I couldn't believe how heavy that kit was! I used to lug that thing around everywhere! Anyway, they are taking an art class that will include photography/film next semester, so they want to get a jump on learning how to use it. I can't resist being helpful.

My wife's idea of being helpful, however, is giving things away - My things. Already this week she has given away one of my filing cabinets (the contents of which are now in a box cluttering up my office - how "helpful"), and an electric scooter I just refurbished. My son wants me to get rid of some of my guitars because they take up too much room (although he won't let me put his unused furniture in storage because "it will get yucky", so it currently takes up most of the recreation room and we can't get the ping pong table out!). I'll be hauling stuff out of the garage today to make some space - that's my own project. Ironically, most of the stuff being hauled isn't mine. Funny how that works...

Why is it, I wonder, that the burden (emotionally and physically) of "downsizing" falls on me?

I just filled a storage locker with all of my mom's stuff so we could sell the house. I think it was six years ago she moved into an assisted living apartment, and left the house behind. She took all the really good stuff, so this was second-string. But she still wants a dozen chairs, two china cabinets (besides the two that actually fit into her apartment, three sets of china, on and on. Four big boxes of custom Christmas tree decorations she will never see again and nobody wants. 100 square feet about 10 feet tall, and that sucker is packed tight. We pay $100 per month so she still "has" stuff she can never use and never even see! But it's her's damnit, so she's going to keep it.

We actually filled a 40 foot dumpster in the process!

I haven't gotten to the garage, yet. Off to do that now.

You don't have to read this... wrote it 8 years ago on another forum... was when we were still snowbirding. Didn't want it to go to waste...
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Having kept some notes on our retirement, I am thinking to share them here as an overview of the ways my bride and I managed to stay out of the working world since 1989. We live simply, with no travel, and apart from any expensive social life, though our life in retirement communities FL and IL, is very social.

#1
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Everyone has different ideas on what retirement should be. One size does not fit all.

I have some thoughts and experiences to share, not as recommendations, but just as food for thought.

First, we've been retired for almost 23 years, so a lot of our experience will not be the same as yours.

With no pension (assets from pension plan were used for starting a small business... no net gain or loss) retirement started out as "give it a try"... if it doesn't work out, go back to work... Retirement prompted by a cancer scare.

Age 53 to age 65 was tough from the health insurance angle... Even then, before medicare kicked in @ age 65, we paid about $11,000/yr... BTW... medicare is not free... we still pay about $8,000/yr (2 persons) for medicare and supplement, and another thousand for basic Pharma.

Social Security... Important to check with SS for your expected benefits. Just a phone call or visit to SS office. Has to do with how much you put in... Husband and wife... Higher income sets base SS for couple... If the smaller payout is less than 1/2 of the larger, that spouse gets 1/2. If the second income is over 1/2 of the larger, then that amount is paid. In my case, even though my wife worked, her calculated SS would have been less than 1/2, so she gets 1/2 of my payment. (Even if she had never worked, she would still get 1/2 of my SS. It's just the way the rules are written.)
In my case, I had always maxed the pay in. We took SS at age 62 so it was a reduced amount. We began receiving checks in 1999, and currently receive (2 of us)(with cumulative COLA's) a total of nearly $23,000/yr. $15K for me, $7500 for my bride. That was the max at that time... it's higher now of course.

At the time we decided to retire, we had a detailed plan... a budget... income and outgo... and looking back 22 years, despite huge variances from our initial plan, we are almost exactly on the budget.

There are hundreds of financial planners on line where you put in your estimates of assets, and return and inflation, and come up with the amount you need to retire. In our case it doesn't work... All of the planners make the assumption that you will want to maintain your asset capital until you die... In our case, had we followed their plan, we NEVER would have retired.
We just decided to die at age 85... dead broke. Made our planning much easier. Personal decision of course, but if you plan to spend down capital assets, it makes planning easier.

Our plan is extremely simple... On the spending side, we have three different budgets that we can adjust as circumstances warrant. Best case... Nominal... and Austerity.

On the Asset/Nest Egg side, We boil our assets down into three categories.
1. Fixed assets... house, auto, and other valuable non cash items... real property, jewelry, . We do not count household goods... (experience tells us that this is not realistic)
2. Non Income producing assets... bank accounts, cash, cash value life insurance policies.
3. Income producing assets... stocks, bonds, annuity.

All of these items are kept on a spread sheet and periodically updated. It's easy to come up with a total value... and then to average the income from the total...

To calculate where we stand in our retirement plan, we add
a. Social security amount.
b. Amount of interest earned on income producing assets.
c. ... and add the Total Assets divided by the number of years between now and age 85.

That establishes how much we can spend, which we then adjust to our best/nominal/austerity budget.

Sounds funky, but it works,and it takes about 2 minutes to tell if we're on budget or not.

The second part of this budgeting thing, is that we've been blessed by not having any debt. All of this makes for very simple accounting. One more thing... we don't try to calculate for inflation. In fact, it has not been a problem over the past 20 years. This may have to change.
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since then, added about 20 more chapters...

.... went back and read my second post, so will bore you with that too.
('cuz I'm bored, and need company.)
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When we first retired, we thought to use a financial planner, and had him draw up a plan. His calculations had us "short" in capital to the tune of about
$200,000... which would tell us we had to work for another 10 years. We spent a month or so agonizing over this, before deciding to give it a try anyway. Best decision ever... We're ahead of his plan too.

Another time, I hope to get in to some specifics that we've discovered that have allowed us to stay ahead of the game... like starting off with very affordable housing... buying the right cars... older deluxe with low mileage ... food savings, drug price savings... taking advantage of state plans for seniors that few even know about... keeping entertainment costs very low... planning for nursing home... advantages of owning a house, insurance savings, medical and dental and optical savings... tax advantages.

All in all, I believe that retirement may be more affordable than you may think.

On "SIMPLIFY"
Our own simplification is not in throwing things out... egad... I'm a hoarder, but under control. I keep "Stuff" that I may need for repairs, for replacement... Like all kinds of paint, wood pieces, computer parts, plumbing stuff and like that.

Our simplification is in our lifestyle. First, our house(s) inside... spartan... easy to clean less to walk around. Outside, very unfancy... perennials... very limited Halloween/Christmas/Seasonal flowers, and other decor.

The more important simplifiction part of our lifestyle is in intrapersonal relationships. Having lived in some 22 different houses and locales since our marriage, we realized early on, that "staying in touch" with neighbors and friends was an impossibility, so we don't spend a lot of time with phone calls, emails and things like "get togethers" and Christmas cards. 25 years ago, we came to a mutual agreement with our kids, all boys, not to spend time in each others' lives. We have a great relationship that is always upbeat, and happy. We don't exchange cards or gifts... not because we don't care, but it's just so much simpler.

I realize that much of what we do is different, and many of our friends don't agree with our laissez faire approach, but it's like "different strokes"... and it works for us.

In the Winter months, we live in a very active manufactured home, Senior (over 55) Park (Community) of 350 homes in Florida.. There are dozens and dozens of activities going on all the time. The best part of this, is that it provides all of the entertainment we could possibly handle... and yet we can pick and choose, without having to make commitments. Out time is our own... We are free to do what we want, and when we want, and we are extremely protective of that freedom.

In the early years 1991 through 2002, we still had commitments, like bowling or shuffleboard, and I taught computer classes. We volunteered in short term projects... building fixing repairing and organizing and running major parties for the community... pot lucks, and car caravans to Daytona Beach... and other Florida beaches. Since then, we pick and choose.
Now... (except for my bride's bridge games) we come and go with the wind... Having a large, heated, community swimming pool and hot tub is great!
Entertainment is basically free... Even our parties... with endless beer, wine and incredible food... along with great local band entertainment for dancing... cost between $10 and $15/couple... (used to be $4 to $6 couple), but you know... inflation. In the winter, there is a party almost every week. "Economies of scale".

Sounds like fun! We've been living in a manufactured house for about 15 years now. Cheapest house in the neighborhood by about a factor of 10! Works fine for us. We don't entertain a lot. We live a ways from family & friends, so we meet at restaurants in between. We NEVER buy new cars. We usually keep them running for a decade or more. We have maxed out 401Ks and IRAs, saved about 15% of my income, and rented out houses instead of selling them when we need to move.

When I got Medicare, my last job terminated me and I was quite happy. I was just working because I figured they needed me. They probably made double my salary on my work, and it would have been even better with Medicare instead of group coverage. Oh well, their loss and my gain.

I have made a very comfortable retirement for us. I don't think we will ever need to touch the principal, so we could afford to be retired forever, in the off chance they make fantastic progress with medical care!

I've lived on this property for 40 years. The first seven years in a double wide and then I built this house. Literally, I built it. With my hands. Pretty nice place too, 2100sqft living and about another thousand in porches and garage, 2 bath 3 bedrooms. It could use a coat of paint but the roof will last as long as I do. Other than a few hospital stays I haven't spent a single night under a different roof in over 20 years.

Government takes complete care of me, even pays my Medicare. If there are any medical emergencies Medicaid jumps in and covers what Medicare doesn't. I've got no debt so all I really have to spend money on is utilities and groceries. I've taken advantage of every state and federal program available to help out a crippled old man. I got my property tax cut in half this year, from $1300 to $650. Because I'm 66, poor, and have lived in the same place for over 25 years. When I'm finally forced into a wheelchair property taxes disappear completely. Probably some other programs I haven't looked into yet.
Can't remember the last time I paid income tax, I don't even have to file anymore so I don't much think about it. There are no savings or annuities, IRAs or 401Ks to complicate my life, Just a check on the 3rd.

When you reduce your expenses to practically nothing and live frugally $7.20 an hour is plenty to get by on. I even managed to raise a kid that wasn't mine for the last ten years. It was hard when I had to buy her clothes and shoes and whatnot but once she got old enough to work I was off the hook for all that.

Did I mention I was an empty nester now? The kid just moved out a couple weeks ago, an already laughably stress free existence just got even easier. I miss her, but not all that much, y'know? I'll save money on groceries now.

Ah, the life of a hippie......

Yesterday I received a call letting me know my application to be a volunteer at the senior activity center had been approved. Starting tomorrow I will be assisting in the computer lab teaching seniors how to manage computer tasks, like email, writing, photos, etc. Today I intend to join the genealogy group, and next week, the writing workshop. I'll let y'all know how those go.

Also, yesterday, I did a very dangerous thing. I took my honey on a tour of retirement community open houses. We visited three, bringing our "total" to five. Oh, if only I were a decade or two older...

They all sound so warm and caring, and expensive. I'm not cheap (frugal won't even speak to me), but I don't want to waste money paying for something I already have. Like It we saved for retirement, like Greger and Jeff have stayed out of debt, and like Julia retired earlier than intended for medical reasons. "Here" sound just fine as a place to retire to, in my book. I'm listening to the sound of the new roof being applied as I write.

My wife, I think, is "thinking" older than I am. She's not even 62, yet, but is withdrawing and looking at older people (70s and 80s) as "peers." I look at contemporaries and next gen folks and think of the possibilities for their futures - and want to do something about it, to take this time to get involved and make a difference - to expand. I may not be up to skiing anymore, but I still have functioning bikes, motorcycles, tools and skills. I want to put them to work, not lament their loss. Ours is a conflict of desires I am trying to navigate very carefully...

So, my friends, I'd like some advice: How do I keep myself involved in community, and activity, when my honey is hermitizing? She is overly dependent on me for daily tasks she's capable of doing herself (like dishes and laundry), and complains of being lonely whenever I go off to the hardware store or am out doing other routine chores. This is not like her. She's always been supremely independent, as the song goes.
I'm really worried about this. I am devoted to her, obviously, but I don't think this withdrawal and obsessing about downsizing (which I consider a process, not a task) is healthy - for either of us. Any suggestions?

Uh...I'm gonna recommend counseling, you need to get a handle on this fast. When you're getting older and your health isn't good it's easy to tip over into depression. Withdrawal and a loss of interest in daily routines are widely recognized symptoms.

If her mental health is fine then you two need to compromise and work out some goals for where you both want to be ten years from now.

I, of course, recommend the rural life. Fresh air, a dog, some chickens...absolute silence during the day and darkness at night.
But close enough to town for pizza delivery and fast internet.(**sighs**)

I'm glad I'm single with only my own welfare to look out for.

Agree with Greger one thousand percent.
Karen is disabled as all of you know but I am constantly watching for signs of the same thing...you know, her slipping into a hermit mode, tipping into depression, etc.

She has "gone there" for a moment from time to time but for Karen, I think Daryl's health scares as an infant boiled any prospect of that right out of her for the most part.

She had to sacrifice any chance of aggressive treatment early on in her MS in order to save his life. She took him back and forth all over the state to doctors, specialists, argued with the Medicaid people, the S-CHIP people, she basically committed her entire life to keeping that boy alive through three open heart surgeries while she was slowly losing the ability to walk.

And here he is, now almost twenty-four, still disabled, still looking at a heart transplant someday in the future but he is alive and on a relatively stable plane anyway, because she fought like a tiger to save him.

You have to somehow find something for her to latch onto...could be a cause, could be pleasant goals, could be an all consuming hobby that almost becomes an obsession (a healthy one) could be a lifestyle change, anything which lures her interests.

Do not let her slip into an age trap before her time.
And I know you will, because you love her dearly as I love mine

We DO HAVE debt, we just don't have a mountain of it.
But it is there and it makes its presence felt.
Our credit card debt is maybe a thousand or two tops.

But we have a pretty sizeable house payment of 2600 a month and a car payment of 850 a month, and we have a MONSTER health insurance bill of
750 a month for the two kids which is bound to become almost a thousand a month next year if current health insurance trends are any indicator.

There may be some relief on the way however.
Bri will have to apply for an ACA policy on her own this time around because she will be 26 years old. Based on her income, the subsidy will likely bring her monthly premium almost to zero unless she gets promoted to manager at the salon. Even then she will still be eligible for a discount and subsidy.

Daryl will most likely wind up on Medi-Cal (California's Medicaid) because pre-existing condition prohibitions will most likely be destroyed by Trump, which will make him uninsurable by ordinary means.

And based on HIS income (which is nil at the moment) his costs will go way down and off our debt.

We're not debt free, our debt to income ratio is considered to be "okay".

It's good to be open. I think that's why many of us come here.

A few things:
At age 83 I am unbelievably happy. That does not mean there were no bumps, getting to age 83. Just a little perspective.

Cancer... age 53
2 months intensive care... in and out of hospital 8 times. Severe prostate near death... last year.
Afib...
... and severe BP and blood problems since resolved.
plus... genes that didn't portend well.

Dear jeanie, also bad genes. also 83, stroke at age 54, and three years ago unexplained deep depression... for six months... saved only by our lady doctor who took a chance and overprescribed a drug that brought her out of the problem. (Thankful to her for taking a chance on her profession.) jeanie came back 100%.

In between the same type of close calls that most of us go through.... Auto "total" accidents... going over a cliff in a snowmobile. Hit by lightning age 16... and who knows how many poisonings breaks, cuts, etc...

So... back to the money thing. While we're reasonably comfortable now, the early days were up and down, but mostly getting by by finding the good parts of life that didn't cost a lot of money. I mean, how many people live in a campground for 24 years? 1990-2014.

In the meantime, 4 kids, all college educated, moving 22 times, Not always easy. Lost one at age 39, and another is handicapped and living on state aid.

Absolutely no complaints. We are blessed and thankful. We are also very, very happy. The morning 2 minute hug is a tradition, and begins every day with a smile... even when it gets a little rocky.

BTW... first time in more than a year... took my Mongoose out of mothballs, and went for a 5 mile ride. Am on an exercise high...

Ponderer, I think my armchair psychologist’s license has expired, for what it’s worth, it does sound like depression. It also sounds like fear a really strong fear, of change, of aging, of losing you, who knows? She may not know, herself. But depression or fear or both, she does need support, of a kind you can’t give her.

There is, of course, another possibility, which is that you might be misreading the situation. You might be seeing something that isn’t really there.

A visit to a good doctor, preferably one that already knows her, is certainly in order.

This is an absolute MUST, and not just in the morning either
I ALWAYS do this first thing in the morning...well...okay, first thing after I've shaved and brushed my teeth...Karen gets "mauled" by yours truly, hugs and kisses. And of course, as if she didn't know it, she gets told how much she is loved.

And just in case she might forget, (Visualize Karen giggling and rolling her eyes) she gets told again several times throughout the day and at beddie bye time, too.

I guess I can't speak for her but I NEED those hugs.
They are downright therapeutic.
I can wake up feeling like utter dog crap (some mornings I do - some I don't!) and a nice big squishy hug suddenly sends waves of relief all through me. I am at home in that sweet embrace and my aches and pains and anything else bad just melts away, at least for a little while.

Funniest thing is, Karen and her sister were raised in a family of "cold fish."
That's what my mother called it. Nancie (Karen's sister) married my brother and my mom couldn't believe it when Nancie said that NO ONE EVER said "I love you" and NO ONE EVER hugged in their family.

Naturally, Mom being Italian, you can imagine.
And my mom said,
"Nancie, in this family we are demonstrative. We are touchy-feely Italians who say I love you and we hug, you will have to get used to it!"

Same thing with Karen.

And they did...it was like watching dried up desert flowers receive rain after months of drought.

You know, you can keep your kids on your own policy until they turn 26, but you don't have to! You said yourself that the girl will get 100% subsidized ACA and the boy would be on Medical, if not for you volunteering to pay for them. Stop volunteering! My wife had 100% subsidized ACA for a year, and it was fine. She had a Blue Shield Covered California plan, just like all those subscribers who pay for it. Same medical group, same doctor as before. Nobody at the doctor's office even knew she was getting free coverage. She did have to pay $20 copays for doctor visits, like all the other people with that plan. I hear Medical is even better: Everything covered and zero copays. Only problem is finding a group that will accept it, but you may be surprised at who does. Also catastrophic stuff like kidney transplants, heart transplants, and dialysis are all 100% covered by Medicare for everybody.

I watched a great comedy special on Netflix the other night. It's Simon Amstell's "Set Free". It's about a gay Brit discovering how to be himself and how to be happy. Very moving. I really liked one joke:

That's almost what I said.
Bri is going to have to apply for her ACA policy on her own this time around, and I mentioned that even though she's working her fanny off, her income will be low enough to qualify for a subsidized policy.

As for Daryl, he has NO income at this time, but the big worry is that he will be declared uninsurable by "the marketplace" due to his heart defects, and he will wind up on Medi-Cal.

Either way, when he begins to get his disability, he'll qualify.