Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Obama Administration Yes We Can My Ass

I know that most of you have given up childish and asinine partisan loyalties. For those of you who still belief that the Obama Administration is the truth, the way and the light rather than same old, same old here is a video clip that should cause you a bit of cognitive dissonance.

Ray McGovern, a former US Army officer and a former CIA analyst, was set upon, beaten and removed from a recent speech given by SecState Hillary Clinton. The speech Hillary was giving was to advocate for free societies to encourage free speech and the right of non-voilent protest. McGovern stood up and faced the audience while wearing a Veterans for Peace t-shirt. He said nothing. He simply stood around and the goon squad that we are so used to hearing about these days in America manned him to the floor, bloodied him and took him to jail - during Hillary's freedom of speech speech.

There is a message here and successive administrations, including her husband's, want to make sure you get it. This is not YOUR government. You are to be spoken to and spoken about, but when you want to be heard you had better shut the f*ck up.

These are the actions you allege:

1. McGovern stood up. Not shown in video.

2. McGovern faced the audience. Not shown in video.

3. He was wearing a Veterans for Peace t-shirt. Not shown in video.

4. He said nothing. He just "stood around." Not shown in video.

5. Goon squad "manned" him to the floor. Not shown in video who the people were who removed him.

6. Goon squad bloodied him. Not shown in video.

7. Goon squad took him to jail. Not shown in video.

To set the record straight:

THERE IS NO SUCH RECORD in the video you cited. For all we know from looking at that video he may have had a weapon. And after what happened in Arizona do you think the "goon squad" as you labeled the security personnel might have had some cause for concern?

NO ONE has a moral right to interrupt another who is simply engaging in public discourse. One may have a legal right but this is nothing but grandstanding.

for starters, i too would like more info. mick, i know you so i trust you have more to offer since the video does not reveal all that you describe. (EDITOR"S NOTE: joe keegan provided a video that provided a link and i am duly satisfied with the information provided.)
next, churl's quote. it is this sort of perspective that will keep us stabled and impotent in the court of public opinion. there is in fact a moral imperative to protest the hypocrisy of a narcissistic government whose intent, by its actions not its words, is to perpetuate the success of a small percentage of its monied interests. oddly enough, it was that very moral imperative that gave birth to this nation, yet comments like the one above suggest that we have left our roots aside.
lest we forget, we embarked upon a social contract once upon a time, agreeing that this is a government for the people, by the people. the social contract has not changed in theory, yet the actions of our government and the people we so hapless believe will bring "change" tells of a different story. the evidence is there. it has been presented here more than once. it is available for those who have eyes. yet we see what we wish to see. we hear what we wish to hear.

thanks, joe. from the video i was able to get this link.

There is no excuse for leaving your manners at the door.

I stand by what I said. The man could easily have been armed. Had someone pounced on that guy in Arizona six people would be alive today. The place for civil discourse does not lie in interrupting people.

and i stand by my post.

Never do anything against conscience even if the state demands it. ~Albert Einstein

If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law. ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849

Human history begins with man's act of disobedience which is at the very same time the beginning of his freedom and development of his reason. ~Erich Fromm, Psychoanalysis and Religion

Integrity has no need of rules. ~Albert Camus


Every actual state is corrupt. Good men must not obey laws too well. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson

As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man objected and no man rebelled, those wrongs would last forever. ~Clarence Darrow

[size:14pt]Ray McGovern[/size][/b] is well known by those people, probably including Hillary. and anecdotal, but when cops and firemen booed Hilary at [b]The Concert For NYC, she just talked over them and didn't miss a beat just like when the goons dragged McGovern away. Later when she used her appearance at the conference in a video promotion, they edited out the boos and dubbed in cheers and applause.

'
Anyone may have a gun---especially in America.

Therefore it is quite right that those who serve money and power can beat up, maim and kill anyone they please, and otherwise engage in actions that would make a Nazi storm trooper blush.

How far Americans have travelled from the days of the Lincoln-Douglas debates and an America in which people were not scared to express their opinions!

Joe and 2wins, thanks for the information posts. I was in a bit of hurry and couldn't get the Youtube link to work and then forgot to add the information link, which was verbatim to the information on the site 2wins posted but was from a different source.

Based on Churl's curiously Teapartisan like position on the Right, some would say the duty, of public dissent, Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. should have met quietly in the offices of their public officials to express their opinions and to highlight the hypocrisies of state and foreign policies.

I wonder what course of action Churl would recommend for citizens who don't have the money or the power to meet with the SecState or the President or members of Congress. Wait, let me guess. They should write a letter. Perhaps an American Speaker's Corner like the one Hyde Park, London. McGovern should have stood on a soapbox in the park. Or, or they could assemble in "free speech zones" (a creation of the Clinton Administration).

Bullshìt, irrelevant, and yet another blatant attempt to divert a thread.

WTF? Discourse? There was no discourse. Churl is defending a position that doesn't exist.


That's absurd. That may be what Churl tells her children when they are impolite, but it amounts to blather and spit in the context of McGovern's situation.