Capitol Hill Blue Forums Misc. Topics Food, Drink and Cooking Buying Organic Foods

I found out about this place from the Organic Consumers Association newsletter.

http://tiny.cc/greendots

It is a buying club and has a free membership offer, but they're very new and not up and running yet.

I wanted to see what all of you thought about it.

I think it sounds like a good idea and in the last 6 months I have met many more people interested in organic and non GMO foods than I had in the last 40 years so maybe it's a good time for something like this to take off.

Who would buy - or eat - "non organic" foods ? Cockroaches ? I'll admit to complete puzzlement over a "distinction" I can't grasp !

All of the basic foods we eat are comprised/created from the same elements, ( i.e. nitrogen, phosphorous, calcium, plus trace elements, etc) . So where does "organic" come in ? Are you/industry suggesting - somehow - there's "alternative elements" not appearing on the periodic table - involved ?

Yeah, before you respond, I know the "stock answer" ! But, as a farm boy and long-term gardener that's fed a family - not to mention a lot of other folk's kids - out of my gardens, I've used passive and active herbicide/insectides as conditions indicate. Knowing a lot of other truck farmers, I've noted all pursue pretty much the same program ! After all theirs is a competitive market and balancing cost/yield/marketability is their forte !

"Organic" often means more field loss and risking spreading infections across whole crops/lands sometimes for several years. It also means lower yields/acre, which means higher harvest costs which translate into higher retail prices. BTW there's a sidebar to this "organic farming" scenario. Lots of local farmers spread chicken manure on fields to improve fertility and add essential trace elements. Many neighbors - buyers of "organic foods" - seem to object to the practice ! >Mech

What I was asking was what people thought of this club.

As far as why buy USDA certified organic products I can only speak for myself.
I am not a farmer but I have had gardens all my life. I have grown with pesticides and fertilizers like Miracle Grow and others. Now I grow organic and sustainable. It took several years but my soil is now alive and producing an abundance of healthy food that tasts much better.

I simply do not want to eat pesticides. I don't want to breath pesticides and I don't even want to touch pesticides, but I can't get completely away from it.
http://tiny.cc/aw9ox
I am not convinced they are safe any more than you are convinced they are dangerous. The main corporations that sell drugs for chronic illnesses also sell pesticides and I don't want to support them.
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I do not want to eat GMOs. I don't like the idea of crossing animal genes with plant genes using bacteria.
I don't believe that it is an improvement as far as diseases and crop loss.
http://tiny.cc/b5cld
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I think the best way to combat disease is to diversify.
http://tiny.cc/vtx61

I also think it is morally wrong for a corporation to modify a plant that contaminates other plants in the area and claim patent rights to the contaminated crops. Monsanto has sued farmers and taken their land over patent rights.
http://tiny.cc/eu038

I believe that they have no right to ruin organic crops.
http://tiny.cc/ra100
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As far as the chicken manuer is concerned. If the chickens are fed GMO feed and are given antibiotics (to keep them alive despite the poor diet and overcrowding) then the manuer should not be used on Organic crops.

http://tiny.cc/a94dh

I respect your right to eat whatever you want.

GT, You're entitled to "go to hell in your own way" !

Curiously, I - and most folks I knew - pursued what your generation now terms "organic" ! Mostly because we couldn't afford high-rate pesticides/herbicides or be certain of how persistence would affect next years' plantings ! Critical infestations were treated with pesticides of known effects, when needed.

OTOH, I've yet to read a serious scientific study documenting any of the "claimed benefits" - in taste, consistency, safety, etc for the same varieties of vegetables "organically-grown" vs normal growing under identical conditions ! IOW, in a "double-blind" test how many could discern the difference ?

But we do have one area of serious disagreement ! You mentioned "carryover" in your reply. All those with a background in animal husbandry have long been aware of the phenomona ! But producers don't control their market ! Middlemen and vendors do ! Consumers can't have it "both ways" ! If you want "free-range chicken" and "free-range" eggs, expect to pay 4-6 times as much as current store pricing ! You want cheap corn meal, ( and the manifold subsidary products made from corn ) there's a "price to be paid", !

GMO crops are a response to a "demand". The public - you, for instance - demanded decreased use of pesticides, so plant agronomists responded with self-protecting plant varieties ! You gotta remember the pests didn't go away, indeed infestations often increased with increased acreage, further increasing demand for GMO seed !

Statists and "watermelon liberals" are long on "top down' regulatory fiat, but damn short on scientific knowledge ! Hence when their fiats become major creators of "unintended consequences" they're first in the "denial line" ! I'd like to see them take the heat for their "fool's gambits", just once ! >Mech

I bookmarked the website, Toad. It looks like it may be worth looking into. I'm also a gardener, not completely organic yet but I'm working on it. I don't use pesticides but Florida sand doesn't hold onto anything for long so I have to supplement with some chemical fertilizers. Eventually I hope to be able to eliminate those. My chicken manure comes from my own well fed and pampered chickens.

Just a view on one world... my Libertarian general manager of one company that I am responsible for, and I, took a break from modifying a bark blower today to go graze the "shop" garden that my wife and another libertarian friend ( a blacksmith known locally as "Iron Troll") are tending. We feasted greedily on the bounty of vegetables grown completely without pesticides or commercial fertilizers.

Having recently come off of the off-season supply of globo-corporate produce, I can only laugh at anyone who thinks there is no difference. Hell, even a mechanically inclined Libertarian can tell that we're getting fecked by the United Corporations of America!

Mech, you stick with that concoction of frackwater and Monsanto chemicals if you want, but you won't get any sympathy from me!

Choice! It's a bootiful thing.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos

Unless one chooses unwisely.

Link Please? It wasn't we the public, it was agribusiness demanding higher yields and plant resistance to expensive herbicides and pesticides.
Primarily GM crops are soybeans, corn, canola, and cotton.
We the public did not demand less pesticides on these crops.

Regarding pesticides in the food we eat:
Link
From the article:
I'd like to avoid as much of this as possible.

As mentioned many times before: If you want to avoid pesticide consumption, you need to know the foods that are treated with a lot versus foods that usually are not. (Easily found with online search.)

It's worth buying organic peaches, plums, and nectarines, since the non-organics generally have very high levels. Don't bother with organic when buying American avocados: The non-organic usually are not treated with any pesticides at all. (Can't say that about Mexican or Chilean avocados.)