Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Election Issues American Values.

Phil, I offer this without rancor to you or others in the legal profession, but to the people who use this tactic:

*if things aren't working to your advantage, threaten to call a lawyer.

I hear you, Red. In his book, The Audacity of Hope, Barack Obama makes this very point: "If we aren't willing to pay a price for our values, if we aren't willing to make some sacrifices in order to realize them, they we should ask ourselves whether we truly believe in them at all."The challenge, he also makes, it to see where we spend our time, energy, and money. "By these standards at least, it sometimes appears that Americans today value nothing so much as being rich, thin, young, famous, safe, and entertained."

He, too, recites a litany of values we assert and subvert - the legacy we leave to the next generation mortgaged by this, "equal opportunity" and yet we "stand idle while millions of American children languish in poverty", family, and then structure our economy and lives so that our families get less and less of our time. But his rhetorical point is this:
So, the first question is "What are those values?" But the follow-up question is "What are we going to do about that?"

I'm not saying that we can't share those values with others, they need not be uniquely American (and indeed I hope they are not), but what is it that we, as Americans, think we stand for? What is it that draws so many to our shores and that so many other nations seek to emulate?

NWP...

I don't want to mix "Rights" with values. I think that most of us certainly value the rights that the Constitution permits, but values extend beyond fundamental rights.

A few years ago an Assoc. Professor at Winthrop University by the name of Guy Reel talked about American Values in an article of the same name. ( Reel Link ) Prof. Guy Reel listed and stated the following:


I think that I could make a list pretty much like Prof. Reel. In fact, my list would probably look similar to your list and others who post a list, but there is a reality about values and I think that the paragraph following Prof. Reel's list kinda speaks to some of the problems in defining values.

I think the the problems are way more complex than even Professor Reel talks about. But, I think that until we get "American Values" off of the Poltically Incorrect List" we are going to flounder and argue about the core meaning and ideas regarding American Values.

You have to wonder if nations seek to emulate us anymore. Agreed there was a time when they did but can that still be said? Do many come to these shores because of an old ideal that exists in their minds but no longer exists in reality? My guess is many come for "hope", hope of a better life, hope of more freedom, hope of more money to feed their families. One thing America does offer is hope, not a value but IMM something we do stand for.

I'm not sure that hope isn't as valid a value, Red, and it encompasses many more - an expection of freedom, a belief that merit matters, that tyranny will be countered, that one can "get ahead." So, I think it should be added to the list. I want to talk in terms of aspiration primariy, and demonstration as it follows from this. As Professor Reel indicates: He also says:I think what is most true is that the power of the government derives from the people, so we have a responsibility to keep that government in line.

I'm with you on that comment NWP.

I think that Prof. Reel certainly frames a realist view of how we may be inclined to make considerations regarding "American Values" when we are engaged to even make consideration. But, as a nation...we've somehow moved away from making consideration of values.

I'd love to wiggle my nose and all would be right with the world and more especially America, but I can't. As Prof. Reel points out, America is a work in progress, but in order for there to be progress, we have to come together as a nation, construct common values and goals.

Over the past couple or few decades, we have sorted groups of folks who make that difficult to attain. We have a government who wants us divided. Who wants us uninformed. Who wants its citizens obiedent and grateful. Gosh, that sounds like some weird OTHER government in some other country doesn't it?

Thanks for this topic NWP...sincerely, I mean it.

I value being able to post what I just did... Can't do that in China or Iran.

How true.

Austin: You could post it in China or Iran, however you would probably be imprisoned for it.

I guess I'm a bit skiddish of the idea of "American Values" due to the amount of Patriotic fervor that followed 9/11. Plus I don't just consider myself an "American" but a citizen of the world because I do believe that we live on one planet not just in one country. My values would be my values no matter where I lived but I think I get what you are saying.

I'm completely sure that I have defined value in a way that isn't intertwined with principle.

Phil said:

"Actual American values:
*spend your way to happiness
*buy more
*do whatever it takes to get "ahead"
*whatever you do look good doing it
*it's not my fault
*what's in it for me?

Just thought I'd bring some reality to the discussion."

At first I was thinking this was kind of funny but then I realized that this pretty much sums it all up.

A good subject though.

Freedom, prosperity, hope, equality, strength are all words that come to mind when I think of what "American Values" *should* be.

The words "American Values" conjure up certain thoughts in my mind.

I think of the 75 year old white man* with the modest, clean house, with well kept yard, wife in the kitchen making some grub. There would be pictures of their three children and grandchildren sitting on top of the upright piano. The guy's probably got an old, worn out tattoo of an anchor on his forearm that he got when he was in the war. There's probably a Navy flag flying out front next to "Old Glory". The man always told the kids "never tell a lie", "work hard" and "take care of your family", etc. He's just your regular average Joe who served his country, knows the value of hard work and good old fashioned honesty.

I know this man. He doesn't necessarily have a name. Rather, he has many names. This is the vision of MY America as I was growing up. This is what I am accustomed to. I don't say it is the only way, I don't say it is the right way or the wrong way. It's just the way I know.

When I think of "American Values", I think of that guy in that scenario: "old school", middle class, family oriented.

I realize that this is not the America that everybody knows. It's just the one I know from a more innocent time.

Nowadays, I look around me and I see the manifestation of the "Values" in Phil's list.

That old guy I described, he could be my Dad or my Grandpa... What happened to his kids? His grandkids? My Fellow Americans?

I grew up around men like the one I described. They seemed like real stand-up guys - you know - Truth, Justice, The American Way.

Where is the disconnect between guys like that and the lying, cheating, corner-cutting people I see around me?

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just getting old and out of touch.

One thing I know for sure though, at least around here, people are very self centered. Image, Money, More, Me!

We're Doomed!

* Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that white, middle class and hetero are the only acceptable options when it comes to "Values". That's just the background I come from.

Phil's da man wiff da plan...

Good list, Phil. It cerainly isn't a candy coated list of values.