Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Crime & Punishment Court rejects death penalty for raping children

Los Angeles Times

Admittedly I am opposed to all capital punishment, but this decision I think is correct. Heinous as child rape may be, there seems to be no proportionality for taking the life of the perpetrator.

Just to put in here where the discussion began.






I'll try to step away from my emotions here. Should we not be judged also on what steps we take to protect our children? Shouldn't we make it absolutely clear to perpetrators of acts such as this, that they, when caught should have to pay the highest of cost, ok, maybe not necessarily the death penalty, but at least not something like 10 years, with parole in 7. I'm sic k of hearing of people convicted of these crimes returning to society, after serving their time, and then committing the same act again. Yes, this does not happen everytime, but happens enough. Would it be better for these brutes to know that they will never see a free day again if they attack a child? I think so. If them knowing that this will be the terms they'll be subject to for committing the act stops even only 100 of them from going any further in the thought process that leads them to act this way, then it is better then them exchanging 7 years for the victims lifetime of torment and anguish. The bar should be set high, so that when these Adults make the choice and know the CONSEQUENCES, and still follow through with it, then they deserve what they get.

On a second thought, why does it seem that the federal branches of government are doing all they can to end a states freedom and right to make and decide it's course (based upon it's constitutional right) on subjects such as this. Where is the Supreme Courts responsibility to uphold that part of the Constitution?

BTW, I should note that my initial anger was brought to bare on this due to a misread on my part.

Reuters


When the death was "not intended". I thought this was to protect the perpetrator from death if he didn't "mean" to kill the child.


Ok, I agree. Please forgive my initial failure to see the exact measure of the courts ruling.

Yes, there is. The perpetrator will never be able to commit those heinous acts to any child ever again. Molesters/rapists don't change their spots. They are monsters. I know this from personal experience.

It is true, it doesn't change the fact that I was molested, and never will, but to know that that man can never hurt me or anyone else again would be a blessing-a healing balm on the gaping wound. Life without parole doesn't always mean that, as someone in an elected position can always commute or pardon a sentence. To have to live with that fear, on top of a rape or molestation or murder, is unconscionable to victims and their families. The attitude of of "Oh well, it happened, it isn't going to change, so just live with it and move on, because the perpetrator of the crime has rights" is cruel and a lifelong punishment for the victims and their families.

It is sickening that the anti-death penalty crowd's mercy and and passion is reserved for those who don't deserve it and spit in the faces of the victims and their families. They don't give a damn about the misery, suffering and pain that they endure from the actions of the criminal. If DNA, forensics and other evidence can prove beyond a reasonable doubt, then the perpetrator should pay, in extreme cases, with his life.

What would be an "extreme" case? What about this case is extreme or unusual from any other child rape? What about other forms of child abuse?

If capital punishment, otherwise known as state murder, is ok in this case, as you argue Scoutgal, that molesters often are recidivists, does the same hold true for all recidivists?

oh i agree Chuckles. heartily. Punishment should fit the crime. thats not to say it should match it

but i dont agree with any punishment that is finite, with no way of reversing the decision.

remember this is an emotive issue, and manys a jury can be swayed on emotive evidence, the horrific nature of the crimes can often blind people as to the innocence or guilt of the suspect.

how many death sentences in the US have been found out the convicted was not actually guilty? Ill try to dig out stats.

i do know of one High profile case in England. The Brimingham six. in the 70's, Six Irish men were convicted of bombing two pubs and killing and maiming many. the judge at the time remarked that he was sorry he couldnt give the death penalty. Turns out the confessions were beaten out of the men and the forensic and other evidence was manufactured by the police due to the pressure from the public and government to catch the murderers.

they were released and exhonerated in the 90s.

but they were not murdered in an angry haze of perceived retribution.

humans and human systems are prone to error. often best not to have irrervsable decisions made, no?

To be honest my first thought upon reading this revolved around the idea that "No life was taken" Well you know what...that really depends on what you mean by "taken". Is that girl still alive? yes but I doubt very much you can argue that her life wasn't taken from her. Her innocence, her childhood and her soul was stripped away in a single act. Parts of her that she will never gain back and if she does it will be a long hard struggle.

On the other hand I'm not a proponent of Capital Punishment even though emotionally I could give a rats ass if this guy fries. Seems to me that what needs addressing more than anything are the laws concerning Child abuse, rape and molestation. They should be swift and severe. The fact is that there is no "cure" for pedophiles/rapist so why are they allowed to go back out? Everyone knows they will do it again but that seems to be what they are allowed to do.

So I guess I'm trying to say I agree with the decision but I do so with much trepidation.

I did also post, probably while you were composing your reply, that I made a mistake in my initial reading of the story I first saw. But my position is to make it at least a life in prison penalty, for anything involving an sexual attack on a child by an adult, and that the courts ruling here is understandable. It still leaves the possibility of commuting or pardoning an innocent man/woman.

I don't want anyone who commits such a crime to be allowed back into society, reformed or not, and for them to know what will happen to them if they do. It's so difficult to see how our society allows what amount to slaps on the wrist, for crimes such as this. To see these people whining about the consequences of their actions is ridiculous. They knew what they were doing. It reminds me of this convicted cop killer here in NM, Estorga (sp.), who is now trying to get his conviction overturned because of the conditions in prison! This lack of proper consequences in our society is a major part of the problem, pushed by the legal wrangling of groups such as the ACLU. We were all taught as children that there are consequences to our actions, at least I was. I'm really tired of ADULTS not accepting the consequences for their actions, it's sad.... and a part of why the world sees the U.S. a bunch of whiny, spoiled wimps because we let this kinda thing go on. It's positively ridiculous, and it spurs on our enemies as well, kinda like not standing up to the bully w/in your midst, pushing his agenda on you (i.e. the ACLU, not that they havn't done some good, but imo groups such as them are helping to weaken us, slowly, like a cancer, and more often then not go too far).

I'm ok with the death penalty in these cases, but also with a less, but harsher penalty then what currently exists. I will not accept anything less then the molester/rapist getting life w/o parole. Protect the children, at least give them the knowledge that person will never again be among us again.

Any authority for that claim?


Link


Link

I have seen no study that supports the notion that all child sexual abusers will re-commit the crime upon release. In fact, from what I have read, even with any given individual the ability to predict a repeat offense is far from perfect. In many if not most states, the government now has the power to put a person once convicted of a sex crime in confinement forever if they are found to be highly likely of a repeat offense.

I acknowledge how emotional this issue is, especially for those once molested. But emotion cannot be permitted to determine policy or else we are just a wild pack of animals.

The death penalty has serious problems, not the least of which is how many innocents are convicted.

Child abuse, rape of children, - there is no one in their right mind who would support such actions. However, I believe just as strongly that every accused person be granted the right to defend him/herself.

Instead of talking about the abstract, some make believe, vile, child "rearing" monster who preys on the defenseless, let's talk specifics.
Frankly, we have a world in which sexual predators not only exist, but walk freely among us, continuing to work as they choose. In fact, these folks are easily recognized, not by some crazed look in their eye, but how they dress. They tend to wear these weird collars in black and white. Yup, the most easily recognizable group of child sexual predators are also working, functioning and protected members of the Catholic Church. For every serial child rapist who has been caught and convicted, there are many more who, either have not been named, indicted or convicted. Some continue to do as they did before.

We aren't talking about one kid being fondled, we are talking about tens of thousands, routinely sexually abused.

So, just to put the death penalty into context, those who support that as a sentence wish to see Father Flannigan and Cardinal O'Casey not just charged and imprisoned, but seated firmly in the electric chair.

As much as I dislike organized religions, I would defend to the death the right of every accused child abusing priest to defend himself against all such charges.

Does the idea of the state killing priests bother you? Should we have a special exemption for men of the cloth? If so, why? They, if convicted, are no less guilty of destroying the lives of kids by raping and sodomizing them.

No, the death penalty is a rather permanent thing. It should never be used, if possible. What bothers me most (and why I am so happy about this decision) was how some ultra-conservatives deliberately rammed through these statutes calling for the death penalty, solely for one reason - to expand the used of the DP in non-murder cases, with an eye to expand it even further, for some "crimes" like providing abortions or contraceptives, selling & using drugs, and several victimless crimes. They chose child rapes purposefully, thinking (rightly) that no politician dare stand against it.