Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Canadian Topics Police identify suspect in bus beheading

Oh, by the way, if you stopped someone from actually assaulting a child, then good on you!:-))
Yours,
Issodhos

I think my harshness is directed more at a culture that seems to be encouraging a passiveness in people and a reliance on the false security of 'rescue' by agents of the state (who, by the way, have no responsibility to provide protection to individuals)when goblins or other nasty things arise.

Even so, one concealed carry gun, one shot, and the kid being stabbed may have lived.
Yours,
Issodhos

Isso:Im with you.I would much rather have a little ringing in ears.The problem with people today is they just don't want to get in the way.

Yes and yes. Not willing to provide the details again except to say that it involved an intruder and my family. Thankfully I did not have to kill anyone and I've shared the details before in this forum.

And yes, I have to say I would do it again.
I do not relish the prospect or take any grim satisfaction from it rest assured.

Jeff H in Occupied TX

It is possible that things might have worked out better in this circumstance in just the way that you imagine.

However there are lots of buses out there where this sort of incident does not take place. And one also has to wonder if once in a while some petty argument might escalate in a way that the fire arm on the bus might be used to kill someone who would not not otherwise have been killed if a fire-armed person was not on the bus.

So for me, there is a dilemma to contemplate... would an even more widespread presence of guns in our society save lives on balance... or cost lives on balance. Myself, I have never been in a situation where I would prefer to have been armed. I have however been in many situations where I was sufficiently angry that it would have been dangerous for me to be armed.

I am not trying to take anyones gun, or rights to carry a gun. Just expressing my opinion.

The reports I read said that no one knew what was happening until the kid had already been stabbed several times. What good would shooting the attacker have done?

In such a situation (a crowded bus with people freaking out during the attack), a trained police officer would not attempt to shoot the attacker (unless he was being attacked) because he might easily miss and hit someone else. Or even if he did succeed in hitting his target, the bullet could pass through the attacker and injure or kill someone else. Most people carrying a gun for self-protection would have far less training about such situations, and would very likely be much less accurate since they would not have been working in a job that required regular target range sessions and confronting aggressors in a panic-filled environment.

So it's a good thing that nobody on that bus did have a concealed handgun: The most likely outcome would have been several innocent victims shot, perhaps one or two per bullet in the clip, when the shooter emptied his gun in the attacker's general direction. Or maybe the shooter would have been sitting behind the attacker and accidently killed the driver while the bus was still moving!

On the other hand, maybe bus drivers should be required to carry and be proficient with pepper spray or non-lethal stun guns.

PIA - wouldn't the bus driver have to stop a moving, loaded bus before s/he could take any action at all? And doesn't that take awhile?

Isso - I realize that you and I disagree and that I'm not going to change your mind. I just feel that the solution you suggest is at least as dangerous as the original problem - particularly because I'm not aware of a high rate of murders on buses.

Added later (sorry, I'm a slow thinker in the morning)
Wouldn't a better solution be to add an "outrider" to the bus, the way there used to be on stagecoaches (at least in movies?) That way the bus driver could drive, and a trained "enforcer" would serve as a deterrent.

Or - better yet - perhaps weapons could be removed from bus passengers via simple metal detectors, as with old airport detectors. Either check your weapons, or don't get on the bus. Seems to me a far better arrangement.

And if the danger isn't really high enough to meet the expense - then it's probably not high enough for armed guards OR citizens.

Metal detectors have come at the end of the discussion, long after the addition of more guns to the mix. I think that's what I meant be escalation - I think the "more arms" solution adds to the danger level as a solution, but we have never learned how to look for other solutions first. (Myself included.)

How do we manage to extrapolate from one event to determine what the "problem with people today is"? May I remind you, and everyone, of what just happened in that Unitarian Church in Tennessee? May I please remind you that the shooter had over 70 rounds of ammunition with him, and yet he was prevented from harming more than a half dozen people by the intervention of several bystanders who did indeed choose to "get in the way"?

What would you say was their problem? How much more good could they have done if they had had concealed weapons there in that church? How much more harm?

One more thought, friends. These tragedies are indeed terrible, and I don't intend to diminish them by pointing this out, but consider that as aware as we are of each and every instance of such wanton violence, we can say with confidence that billions of person-miles of bus travel occur without them, and billions of person-hours of church attendance. Why do we seek to "solve" these problems by addressing bus safety or church safety, when obviously that is not where the problem lies?

All the stats I have ever read shows that when ever you implement gun control crime goes up.Because the odds are the bag guys know the good guys may not be armed.Even with hand gun control in DC the bad guys were killing each other regardless.The only thing that the law did was keep guns from the good guys.Now if these gangster drug dealers want to kill each other let them.By the way a large percentage of gun deaths are caused by gangster drug dealers.A small percentage between lovers.A smaller percentage accidental.And even a smaller percentage do to good people protecting them selves.