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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Joined: Feb 2006
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What we need is spending NOW... especially projects that eventually will pay themselves back. Well,then, since the money is going out the door anyway, and you say spending is needed "NOW" and, when we combine the bank bailout funds and the amount of this 'stimulus' package, we are talking 2 trillion dollars, and when we look at the 136 million tax returns filed in 2006, why not give every filer $14,705 to do with as s/he likes? Some will quickly spend all or part of it on consumer goods and services, others will use it to pay bills, others will use it to reduce their debt, others will put it directly into the bank, some will use it as a downpayment on a house, some will use it to buy a car, some will replace household items, some will use it to party hardy, etc. In other words, people using the money precisely for what they want, not money being spent by the government based on the various special interests they can satisfy, reward, or promote. Of course, that will not happen for several reasons. The pols and those NGOs and 'activists' who are greedy to get their hands on that dough do not trust the individuals that make up The People. More importantly, it would be anathema to them to trun over or return that much power to the individuals who make up The People. Thirdly, it would deprive those whose inner fascist drives them to seek to socially engineer the rabble. But hey! What can ya say?;-) Yours in musing, Issodhos With respect to how the TARP funds were used, you'll get no argument from me... in my opinion, that money should have gone directly to repurchase troubled loans at or close to market value, and reset the interest rates to something rational. What was done was completely against common sense, and even against what Congress [said they] wanted in creating the program. I have little confidence that the second half will be handled any better, but I do believe the transparency will at least let us all know who's getting what and why, unlike the first half. As for your 'remedy', it answers the first half (spending) but neglects the second part of my statement (pays itself back) - unfortunately, so do too many of the projects funded. I am not happy with all the contents either. As much as I despise Boehner for other reasons, I heartily agreed with what he said, that it should essentially be 100% infrastructure, and 100% jobs... unfortunately, the Senate Republicans disagreed. I also think Obama made a huge mistake in seemingly turning the reins over the Pelosi to choose the projects, and likely too many wrong projects made their way into the bill, especially at first... the problem is, for all Boehner's talk against pork, if he had his way it likely would have been just as much pork, only difference being projects to the Republicans advantage. They are two sides of the same coin. I don't have all the information of course, so I could be wrong... but that is my impression.
Castigat Ridendo Mores
(laughter succeeds where lecturing fails)
"Those who will risk nothing, risk everything"
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581 |
High speed rail is a perfect case for NOT just cutting everybody a $14,705 check: I can't buy high speed rail with my $14,705! So giving everybody individual checks doesn't get us high speed rail. All it gets us is more cars on the overcrowded roads.
Building a public infrastructure project like a high speed rail system is something only government can do. If you leave it to market forces alone, it will never get done. Unless the "bailout" and "stimulus" packages are really the Desperate Emergency High Speed Rail Bill, screw high speed rail. Trust the people.:-) Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,707
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,707 |
If you were hoping for immediate sweeping change then you set yourself up for disappointment. I just hope that in two years we aren't seeing continued sweeping same. Obama has come out of the gate slow, he's staying with the pack and getting a feel for the track. It's still way to early to call the race though. I hope that it works, but I suspect that we'll only see another such bill before too much longer. One way to immediately stimulate the economy is take the trillion or so and give it to the people, which is about $7k/person. I assure you that would stimulate the economy much more effectively. If I remember correctly, the purpose of the initial bail-out was to give bankers billions so that they could pump money into the economy in order to stimulate it. Once the bail-out money or stimulus money finds its way into circulation, we'll see inflation.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 27
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 27 |
Rick,
Engineers are definitely middle class by any definition. Perhaps not 'working class' but definitely middle class. Are they paid well? Of course they are, they've got at least 4 years of college, and many years of experience in the 'trenches' before they get to the upper levels of income.
My sister is a civil engineer, designs drainage for road projects, she makes a decent living, but is she wealthy? No,not by any stretch of the imagination, and she is at the top of her field in her area, responsible for a lot of 'baby engineers' and making certain that their designs are actually functional, as well it is her responsibility to act as liason with the state agencies. You'd think she'd be awash in money wouldn't you? You'd be wrong<G>
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646 |
Two things that intrigue me about this whole line of discussion. One, no one has established that the initial premise, that $8 Billion has been allocated for engineering studies, is even true. Two, we're talking here about one half of one percent of the total amount of money that has been allocated to "bail out" the economy.
Doesn't that amount to a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees? Or, to extend the metaphor just a tad, not seeing the sequoias for the shrubbery?
Steve Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.
(Native American prayer)
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,841
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,841 |
Engineering studies do not equate to "shovel-ready." As I mentioned before, environmental assessments, including human impacts, all have to be studied and presented to FHWA for approval of location and design concept acceptance first. Everyone is getting all excited about their pet project (whether it's transportation, education, or something else), but we still don't know what will be allocated to what. Believe me, the planning folks I know have been working day and night for weeks now trying to figure it out.
EmmaG
"I believe very deeply that compassion is the route not only for the evolution of the full human being, but for the very survival of the human race." —The Dalai Lama
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853 |
Unless the "bailout" and "stimulus" packages are really the Desperate Emergency High Speed Rail Bill, screw high speed rail. Trust the people.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos "Trust the People!" Now there is Idealism that is way out beyond the ozone! Trust people who, for decades, have been subject to behavior modification and thought modification by some of the most sinister forces in modern society! Trust people who are little more than zombies responding to the direction of PR, mass media and info-tainment! It would require much time and effort to wash the brains of the brain-washed People to the point that they are even minimally trustable! No, thank you! I will put my trust in a high speed rail system before I will "Trust the People!" -
Last edited by numan; 02/15/09 05:04 PM.
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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OP
Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
...the stimulus plan was never sold as benefiting the poor, and certainly not only the middle class. I didn't realize that "the rich" needed economic stimulating as well. My bad.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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OP
Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
...(is it better to employ 1000 new 100k a year engineers, or 5000 new skilled and unskilled trade workers?) I'm of the mind that the more people that can benefit, the better. So in your example RB, 5000 new jobs would be better than 1000 IMHO. ...and I agree that the U.S. is behind Japan and Europe in high-speed rail and I also agree that private industry could never come up with that kinda dough to fund the projects.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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OP
Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,430 Likes: 373 |
...Do you have a source that provides the actual amount that was in the bill as passed, rather than the amount that "Obama and Reid pressed for"? Not yet. Most of my information/sources comes from KGO San Francisco, and specifically Gill Gross, former ABC Network Radio news anchor/report for 25 years with ABC Network Radio. ...he's very well connected and let's us listeners "in" on a lot of "behind closed doors" stuff.
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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