Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Obama Administration 'Conservatives, Shut Up And Step Aside'

It looks to me like it will be quite some time before cooler heads prevail...if ever.

Hummm, anyone remember the run up to the war in Iraq.... opponents were characterized as what?

Yeah, took the Bushies 18 months to invade a sovreign nation but Obama is supposed to have fixed the economy, healthcare, and gotten us out in 6 months! It astounds me how much more credit the GOP gives a Democratic president than a Republican one! Smarter than I expected.

do I win the prize?

In contrast to Bush and Cheney, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security and "If you're not for us, you're against us"?

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Neither Team Obama nor Team Bush is averse to telling its opponents to STFU, or to protesting loudly when requested to do so in turn. Just more shirts vs. skins.

Godwin's Law is now invoked:

EVERYONE loses the argument.

Yes.

The time it takes to get from initial discussion to Godwin invoked seems to grow ever shorter.

You are correct of course

game set match... both sides lose... bravo.

Now, just as a matter of academic interest.... someone please propose any indication that the people described in the original post had any interest whatsoever in discussing the issue.

If you start out with an argument by people who have no interest in discussing the topic... then I think Godwin's law is the best case outcome and an outcome I am willing to live with in response to the material posted in the opening link.

In any case

Let's suppose for the moment that someone really did want to talk about health insurance reform. There are two compelling arguments against it that I have heard up to this point.

The first argument is basically correct.... IE that essentially there needs to be a not for profit single payer system where doctors have no incentive to earn a profit by providing more treatment. It is a correct argument....and essentially not passable. Not to mention totally opposed by the people referred to in the original post.

The other argument is that proposed by SKY.... basically the proposed plan is unclear as far as expense and likely will cost "too much"

I dismiss this argument for two reasons.... first of all... the fact is that we pass lots of programs and initiatives that are unclear on cost. IMO it is simply an excuse to use this reason to oppose the current plan.

But still... maybe it really will cost too much. Well, of course our friends in the GOP will oppose any initiatives at cost reduction. But lets leave that aside.

The simple fact is that we already have government health care. If/when you run out of money... you are covered in the ER or though Medicare or what ever. We mostly do not let people die on the street for lack of medical care. So.... all these people who will be given medical insurance... yes, it is an increased cost.... but do we escape that cost through not covering them? Or do we simply hide the cost in unpaid ER room visits and Medicare costs? And then pretend like those costs do not exist?

IMO, our nation has long ago decided that we do not want to let people die for lack of medical care. And we have constructed a jerry rigged system to implement this social value. The only question that remains is when we will acknowledge that we are already paying for national medical care... but without many of the benefits of actually having a program and a policy.