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SkyHawk Offline OP
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An interesting piece written by Sen. James Webb of Virginia worth reading, particularly given the recent debacle surrounding the Sherrod situation.

Diversity and the Myth of White Privilege
By JAMES WEBB

Quote
Contrary to assumptions in the law, white America is hardly a monolith. And the journey of white American cultures is so diverse (yes) that one strains to find the logic that could lump them together for the purpose of public policy.

The clearest example of today's misguided policies comes from examining the history of the American South.

The old South was a three-tiered society, with blacks and hard-put whites both dominated by white elites who manipulated racial tensions in order to retain power. At the height of slavery, in 1860, less than 5% of whites in the South owned slaves. The eminent black historian John Hope Franklin wrote that "fully three-fourths of the white people in the South had neither slaves nor an immediate economic interest in the maintenance of slavery."

The Civil War devastated the South, in human and economic terms. And from post-Civil War Reconstruction to the beginning of World War II, the region was a ravaged place, affecting black and white alike.

Quote
In 1938, President Franklin Roosevelt created a national commission to study what he termed "the long and ironic history of the despoiling of this truly American section." At that time, most industries in the South were owned by companies outside the region. Of the South's 1.8 million sharecroppers, 1.2 million were white (a mirror of the population, which was 71% white). The illiteracy rate was five times that of the North-Central states and more than twice that of New England and the Middle Atlantic (despite the waves of European immigrants then flowing to those regions). The total endowments of all the colleges and universities in the South were less than the endowments of Harvard and Yale alone. The average schoolchild in the South had $25 a year spent on his or her education, compared to $141 for children in New York.

Quote
Where should we go from here? Beyond our continuing obligation to assist those African-Americans still in need, government-directed diversity programs should end.

Nondiscrimination laws should be applied equally among all citizens, including those who happen to be white. The need for inclusiveness in our society is undeniable and irreversible, both in our markets and in our communities. Our government should be in the business of enabling opportunity for all, not in picking winners. It can do so by ensuring that artificial distinctions such as race do not determine outcomes.


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I think it is overstating his case to call it the "Myth of White Privilege". While it is absolutely true that it is an issue of economic status, it is also true that until quite recently the upper classes economically were white. So for most of our history, it was a white only privilege -- I mean our Constitution built that in.

One of the key roles of government should be to moderate the over-reaching influence of the oligarchy and those who hold privilege because of economic status.


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SkyHawk Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Phil
One of the key roles of government should be to moderate the over-reaching influence of the oligarchy and those who hold privilege because of economic status.
Indeed.

One of the phrases that caught my eye was
Quote
..blacks and hard-put whites both dominated by white elites who manipulated racial tensions in order to retain power.
My first thought was that not much has changed in that regard. The rich elites of this country maintain power over the rest of us, regardless of ethnicity.


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Originally Posted by SkyHawk
The rich elites of this country maintain power over the rest of us, regardless of ethnicity.
Divide and conquer. One of the oldest tricks in the book. Nothing new to see here--now move along folks.


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Originally Posted by Phil Hoskins
One of the key roles of government should be to moderate the over-reaching influence of the oligarchy and those who hold privilege because of economic status.

Another Dem talking point thrown out there under the cover of class sympathy. What business is it of your who is rich and who isn't? More importantly, what business is it of the government to regulate who is rich and who is poor? This is the danger in a classist domestic policy, the Government creates boogie men and the sycophants and true believers perpetuate the myth that the government only has our best interests at heart, unless your rich. As an example of how misguided a domestic policy this is one only has to look at Zambabwe today. When Robert Mugabe took over he was an international star. He had negotiated a peaceful transfer of power from the UK to a government headed by himself. Look at Zymabawe today, inflation at 1,000,000% and on the brink of civil war after forcing all white farmers out of the country and killing the one who wouldn't leave. Not only that, he has decided to kill all of the black farmers who do not support his government. His argument for for redistribution? They had too much while the majority didn't have enough.

The government should encourage the accumulation of vast wealth! They should take every opportunity to foster the growth of personal income and create opportunity for people to start businesses and accumulate riches. When Obama asked the rhetorical question "How much is too much" he proved he was ignorant of the basic premise of making money, you can never have too much because it can be lost just as quickly as it was made. Jealousy of your neighbor is never a good policy, jealousy of a class of neighbors instigates violence and starts wars.

America was built on the backs of the people who accumulated vast sums of money, who invested their money in building railroads and communities. And, for this vision and investment, you villify them as an "over-reaching influence of the oligarchy". I am sure that they would prefer my name for their accomplishments "Visionaries".


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Ma, you are wrong both historically and politically, but we shall just have to disagree.


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I'm not willing to let it go that easily, Phil, because the argument undoes itself: On the one hand is the question "what business is it of the government to regulate who is rich and who is poor?" Followed by the assertion that "The government should encourage the accumulation of vast wealth! They should take every opportunity to foster the growth of personal income and create opportunity for people to start businesses and accumulate riches." Which is doing exactly that which the question begs: having the government determine winners and losers - and beggering the poor for the benefit of the rich in the process. In other words, following the policies of the last three Republican administrations. That is why we have a tax system that greatly favors the rich over the poor, where the effective tax rate is higher for the middle class than for the wealthy. What we should be doing, as Senator Webb argues, is "be in the business of enabling opportunity for all, not in picking winners." That opportunity is not created by enriching the upper class at the expense of the middle class.


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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'
Originally Posted by SkyHawk
The old South was a three-tiered society, with blacks and hard-put whites both dominated by white elites who manipulated racial tensions in order to retain power. At the height of slavery, in 1860, less than 5% of whites in the South owned slaves. The eminent black historian John Hope Franklin wrote that "fully three-fourths of the white people in the South had neither slaves nor an immediate economic interest in the maintenance of slavery."

The Civil War devastated the South, in human and economic terms. And from post-Civil War Reconstruction to the beginning of World War II, the region was a ravaged place, affecting black and white alike.
Yes, as usual, the ordinary American gullible dimwits were suckered, squeezed and discarded by their rich rulers.

Divide and conquer.

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Originally Posted by NW Ponderer
I'm not willing to let it go that easily, Phil, because the argument undoes itself: On the one hand is the question "what business is it of the government to regulate who is rich and who is poor?" Followed by the assertion that "The government should encourage the accumulation of vast wealth! They should take every opportunity to foster the growth of personal income and create opportunity for people to start businesses and accumulate riches." Which is doing exactly that which the question begs: having the government determine winners and losers - and beggering the poor for the benefit of the rich in the process. In other words, following the policies of the last three Republican administrations. That is why we have a tax system that greatly favors the rich over the poor, where the effective tax rate is higher for the middle class than for the wealthy. What we should be doing, as Senator Webb argues, is "be in the business of enabling opportunity for all, not in picking winners." That opportunity is not created by enriching the upper class at the expense of the middle class.
Well, ok. I agree, why is it proper for government to foster one group over another? Isn't that the whole conservative mantra?

As you point out, NWP, they aren't asking for a neutral government but rather one that favors capital accumulation.

Furthermore, it is necessary for government to reign in capital because:
1. Capital has proven itself to be unwilling to regulate itself even when looking at its own best interest -- each and every economic downturn proves that point.

2. All forces need a balancing force or else the system gets out of balance and self destructs.

3. The very best way to foster capital is for the government to prevent too much concentration of it and to provide those without capital with a more even playing field so that they can accumulate as well.

Listen, I was once a Republican, I was very conservative fiscally, and then fortunately I met them. The ones who keep whimpering about regulations, restrictions and taxes. For the most part what I discovered were people blinded by greed, possessions and an urgent need to win at what they undertook.

I refuse to associate with those kinds of people because they are agents of death and destruction, they are enemies of human kind.

Want proof? Look around.


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My computer crashed before I could post my "concurrence and dissent" from the views of Senator Webb...

I quite agree when he says, "Our government should be in the business of enabling opportunity for all, not in picking winners." I also agree when he says, "The injustices endured by black Americans at the hands of their own government have no parallel in our history, not only during the period of slavery but also in the Jim Crow era that followed." And that "African-Americans, who despite a veneer of successful people at the very top still experience high rates of poverty, drug abuse, incarceration and family breakup." And "Generations of such deficiencies do not disappear overnight, and they affect the momentum of a culture." All of this is true, but...

his sweeping cure-all of ending affirmative action programs entirely does not flow from his arguments. There are times when historical discriminatory impacts should be considered in decisionmaking. Not often, not exclusively, but remediation takes a very long time. Nonetheless, I prefer the Obama administration's approach by looking at "economic disadvantage" rather than race as the focus of policy. It is, and should be, about leveling the field of opportunity. That is an approach that I think has the greatest merit, and reflects the knowledge that Shirley Sherrod won from her experiences as a young advocate for poor farmers.
Quote
"Working with him," said Ms. Sherrod, "made me see . . . that it's really about those who have versus those who don't." It's helping the frightened and powerless. "And they could be black, they could be white, they could be Hispanic."
That's why the Senator-who-would-become-President said
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"I can't pass laws that say I'm just helping black folks. I'm the president of the United States. What I can do is make sure that I am passing laws that help all people, particularly those who are most vulnerable and most in need. That in turn is going to help lift up the African American community."
I agree with that approach, as, I think, does Senator Webb. But I think that Senator Webb's recitation of parallels of "white Baptists" and "Irish Protestants" as proof of "white diversity" deliberately misses the far more significant historical reality and fatally wounds his arguments. Anyone who has ever lived in the South, the East, or the Midwest has seen, or experienced, the daily reality of "White Privilege." It ain't no myth, and, as Faulkner would say, "It's not even past."


A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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