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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 28
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 28 |
Ken and Jeffro, thank you for your posts. I am with you on the religious point of view. Sometimes I think it would be better for me too if I could just stop trying to figure it all out and just do it too.
I've have a very diverse background of exposures (up front and personal) from Southern Baptist to Mennonite to Jewish.
Most of it doesn't make sense to me and it seems like bending the big old book (written so long ago!) to make it work. I don't buy it.
It's like religious people WANT to be afraid all the time.
There is a little park very close to me. Less than a quarter mile. I like to walk down there sometimes by myself. I mean it's just RIGHT OVER THERE.
I can't tell you how many times I've been cautioned by some of my Christian neighbors around here that it is a "gay hang out" and there is "no telling what I'll see"!
Huh?
I'm just now getting caught up on both of these threads.
Jeffro, your postings in the other thread and here too have touched me deeply.
Thank you for sharing all that.
Even when I thought I knew all about it...no I don't actually.
I hate this. I am so sorry.
Last edited by olyve; 11/10/08 01:38 AM.
"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646 |
I don't think religious people want to be afraid, I think fearful people want to be religious.
I think religious people were responsible for originating the song "we shall overcome", were they not? And I think religious people were largely responsible for the monumental achievements of the Civil Rights era. I think they would not have achieved nearly so much as they did, had they not been, shall we say, fearless.
If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a religious person. I think he was extraordinarily courageous, and that the foundation of his courage was his religion.
I think fearful people, as Barack Obama so rightly observed, often cling to "G*D and guns" to protect them from the unknown, invincible things they fear. I don't think courageous people cling to G*D. I think courageous people who choose to be religious do so as a matter of faith.
Steve Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.
(Native American prayer)
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,151 Likes: 54
veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2006
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Just a footnote: "We Shall Overcome" was originally a church hymn -- but it was Pete Seeger who wrote new words and made it part of the civil rights movement.
Julia
A 45’s quicker than 409
Betty’s cleaning’ house for the very last time
Betty’s bein’ bad
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 28
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 7,630 Likes: 28 |
I don't think religious people want to be afraid, I think fearful people want to be religious. VEry excellent point, Steve, and one the Christian Coalition founders knew very well.
"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33 |
Yes—and don’t get me wrong. I am not anti religious. Religion has done much good in the world through its many charities and well as been a great motivation in helping compose some of the most stirring music ever written. It’s not for me but I do believe it has provided much needed comfort and help for many. Most humans seem to need it and would be absolutely lost and rudderless without it.
My problem with religion is when it becomes militant and tries to impose its views and will on other people. That’s when I believe it becomes harmful and hurts (sometimes kills) other people. If religions would stick to their good side and encourage its followers to do beneficial things for both its adherents and outsiders, all would be well in my book.
But what is religion anyway? It’s a set of beliefs that can either be a tool for good or bad depending on the whims of its leaders and followers. Good religious leaders motivating their followers to do the right thing can provide good benefits for humanity. The converse is also true, unfortunately. The same can be said for political leaders.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605 |
Olyve, you are welcome. I feel like I have been consumed by this one issue for a week now and am trying to make it make sense. Thank you for reading and commenting. It has ended up being a very emotional issue for me. I don't know that it is possible to know all about it. Each of us has a different story and I think it's easier to understand a position when you know the background. Thanks to CHB for indulging me in my lengthy posts. Now, about that park... 
We are constantly invited to be who we are. Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33 |
Jeffro;.....it's right over-----there.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605 |
I don't think religious people want to be afraid, I think fearful people want to be religious... I agree Steve. But when it comes to fundamentalism, the fearful feed each other - it is like a snake eating its own tail. And as Olyve said, the leaders know very well that it works. I try to distinguish between religious and fundamentalist, though it is getting harder to tell them apart. The religious people I know do not use fear to motivate people. I never got threats of hell from Mom and Grandma (Grandma who thought I would be a great priest and the fact that I was gay was a plus since I would never be getting married, a belief in God was negligible, may she rest in peace). I am convinced that fear is ALL the fundamentalists have. The list of things that scare them is endless. It is almost like living among some ancient tribe.
We are constantly invited to be who we are. Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 605 |
Jeffro;.....it's right over-----there. Thanks Ken, You wait here, I'll go check it out for you... be right back.
We are constantly invited to be who we are. Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,026
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,026 |
I have finally found an article on Prop 8 that I can fully agree with from start to bottom: A couple of years ago, I wrote a column in which I announced my official position on gay marriage. Basically, I don't care.
Not only do I not care if gays get married, it is none of my business. As a flaming heterosexual, it's a full-time job for me just to keep my thoughts clean in church. I don't have the energy to fret about somebody else's libido snip For example, I hear in church all the time about marriage being ordained of God. But I also hear about how the glory of God is intelligence.
Shouldn't it be against the law for stupid people to get married? What's more harmful to society - two well-dressed men getting married and settling down, or two idiots tying the knot and cranking out any number of additional idiots?
You should have to pass a harder test to get married than the one we currently have. Essentially, there are but two questions: "How old are you?" and "Is that your sister?" Hell, you could pass this test just by guessing.
There are drawbacks. Most people get married when hormones and youth make them about as dumb as they'll ever be. So, even a relatively easy test would by default raise the age limit to about 40.
With an increased marriage age limit, there would be fewer births. Genealogy would become easier to do. With fewer births, there would be fewer children born gay. Hey, isn't that what Heavenly Father would want?
OK, I was just kidding about that. But if you're really serious about putting a stop to gay sex, let them get married.
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. ~Chinese Proverb
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ~Jon Hammond
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