Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Obama Administration 6,825.42 Nice job Mr. President

OMG! How differently you and I perceive the foundational principles of this great nation!

To my mind, the Constitution is all about "fair". The whole idea of checks and balances, the division of power, the government of law not men, of by and for the people, providing for the common defense and general welfare, the "more perfect union" -- it is ALL ABOUT fairness. "Inalienable rights"! What do you think it's about - elitism?

So you say. And yet you write that anybody with "a little bit of motivation and smarts" should have made enough to retire comfortably during the last four Administrations. "Anybody". "Should have". And I'm just going to guess that you have no earthly idea how elitist that statement is. You believe that everybody has the same opportunities in this country. As if women and people of color are on a level playing field with you and the rest of the White Males in this country. As if children born into poor families get the same nutrition, health care, and education as children born into middle class families. Yes, that is elitist. If you have another definition, I'd be glad to refute it.

Used to be? You mean, like back in the sweatshop days? Before Brown v Board of Education? Back when America meant "White Male America"?

Apparently you are unaware of the flight of capital, and where it has flown. Would you care to look at some data? Then we can have a philosophical discussion as to whether the recipients of this transfer were motivated by greed or respect for their country.

My greed Ma? Are you making a value judgment about my personal motivations? I don't think you have any right to do that. You have no idea what motivates me to live the life I have chosen, and on this board you have no right express such a judgment. You are entitled to comment on what I say; you have no right to state what I think.

Repetition ad nauseum works for Goebbels and the neo-cons. For intelligent people, it only induces nausea. Come back with data and we'll discuss it.

I only have one requirement, Ma for the resolution of your rant. When the economy moves forward under President Obama and the Democratic congress, this thread will be brought back up, and you will be required to eat your generous portion of crow.

From previous discussions, I would have thought some more noble cause would most strongly influence your voting decision... perhaps Obama's performance on women's issues. But let's leave that aside as being off topic this discussion.

I presume that you (and others posting here) have the right to choose how to deploy your investments. I wonder if you take any responsibility for that or simply leave the burden on Bush and Obama as a matter of convenience. You see, actually, the decisions that you make... investment wise... do make a difference. As it happens my investments were up nicely last year ... as is the case also this year to date.

It just seems to me that people should take a little more responsibility for their decisions. And, particularly people of a conservative persuasion who generally seem inclined to feel the individual is primarily responsible for his own welfare. There are several people on this forum who have been warning about the extreme nature of the situation we face... and the resulting vulnerability of stock prices. So... one must presume that everyone was fully warned regarding the safety of a broad generalized investment in stocks.

The Dot-com stock bubble of Clinton's presidency was not something he produced, nor did it actually make the country a whole lot better off in general. And, it further follows that the collapse of those "values" was not ultimately a presidential responsibility.

Stock prices of a year and more ago were unsustainable high. They were inflated by a variety of bubble influences that eventually collapsed. Current economic carnage is our collective payback for tolerating and encouraging a bubble economy. In this case, the most recent bubble that we are paying for now is something that happened under the previous president.

It is not possible to say where it will all end, or when. But it is possible to see the roots of the catastrophe. Those roots were grown over several years... even going back to the Clinton Administration.

I have never shied away from admitting that I was wrong. But when it doesn't recover, I expect the same.

I cannot parse the state of America. We are in trouble and the current path our President had embarked on has not worked in the past and I have no reason to believe it will in the future. There is no more noble cause than protecting my family. It is my only goal in life. I have tried to instill a sense of achievement in my children and tried to encourage a work ethic that will carry them through their lives. I have always encouraged them to reject the jealousy that is being embraced by this administration. The idea that because people have made a lot of money they are somehow screwing the other people just does not compute. The idea that they made a lot of money should be celebrated as proof that America works. But, that idea has become passe and elitist.

The Declaration of Independence tells us that it is our right to have Life, Liberty and the prusuit of happiness, but it does not tell us what those concepts encompass. It wisely does not put limits on those concepts. But this President wants to put limits on them. He wants conditional happiness, conditional liberty and something less than a life that if experienced to the fullest.

I think I understand your problem. You really have no clue as to what the President hopes to achieve. You obviously have missed the entire point of the Recovery Act, which is to put people back to work. Maybe because you have a job you don't give a rat's ass that millions of people have lost their jobs and the effect that that has had on the economy. I suppose that's Obama's fault too, or because those people just haven't been playing by the rules. Maybe that explains why you're focused like a laser beam on your diminishing retirement portfolio. Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky that you have a job that provides income that you can invest in a retirement fund. Oh, I forgot, you play by the rules and those that have lost their jobs, their incomes, their health insurance and homes haven't and are just "jealous" of you and what you have. By the way, I've missed that part of the Obama message that tells the unemployed that they should be jealous of the employed. Perhaps you could show me where he's said that. While you're at it, I'd like to know when he's said that people who have made a lot of money are "screwing" those that haven't. I thought I was well informed about what he has been saying, and I just don't recall that part of the message.

So you do not regard the short term vagaries of the stock market as an instantaneous measure of the health of our nation. I agree.






Well these are both opinions. You are free to have such opinions. But, from reading what you wrote above, it would seem that you also agree that it is a little soon to evaluate the results of the current administration.

And may we presume that you have taught your children not to make their entire lives dependent upon something so erratic as the stock market? Will you similarly judge your children's life accomplishment by the immediate value of their investment portfolio?

It took at least a decade to rip apart our financial and economic foundation. So, what is a reasonable time limit to overcome this crash. Hmmm, how about 1 month? Will that work? Or how about 6 months?

Over the past decade there have been two primary laws inacted that were Republican bills, which were voted on by both Dems and Republicans that have caused severe, if not irreparable damage to our nation's welfare. These were joint ventures created for a purpose: to appease the constituents...and payoff the corporations...and which have resulted in a lethal blow to our financial stability. It was all about greed from every perspective.

Years of abuse, exploitation, and out and out systematic extortion by our government and market...won't be resolved the next few months. It might take years. Meanwhile, all of the folks who created this problem continue to play like they didn't and want us to think that they are now our saviors. All I can really think about this is ... F*** these people. I want to see serious accountablity. No more pushing the offenders under the rug and pretend that their not there.

Anybody ever hear, "It's going to get worse before it gets better?" How can it be any other way?

Nothing in recovery from a chronic problem starts at the top, or the middle, but usually "below" the bottom.

Our market and economic situation didn't just hit a bottom, it crashed through the floor.

So, I just want to know who the hell is so smart that they can pull off an instant recovery?

Im not a Democrat, I'm no longer a Republican...but to believe that a PARTY affiliation is the sole solution to our economic and financial woes "is insane". When we really take reality by the horns...the Government and their Corporate Partners are in control of the now so-called, "BIG FIX". How in the hell can we trust these people to fix anything? It's not in the best interest of those who are the biggest beneficaries of this gross grand theft to fix it.

As far as I can tell thus far, we have the Screw Me Up Party and the Screw Me Down Party. I can't really tell which Screw I like the best. I'm too self aborbed with which I dislike the worst.

Why is it that Americans who didn't "win" last November want America to fail?

Shameful!

No, I don't think you do understand my problem. I have workd all of my life to become somewhat successful. From the time my Dad kicked me out of the house because I was a degenerate to now I have worked my tail off and achieved more than I should have. I have done that through a lot of hard work and a lot of luck. I tell you right now that if I can do it anybody can do it. The fact that people are losing their jobs I do lay at the feet of the current Congress and the President. This was and is their budget and this was and is their crisis. They controlled Congress, wrote the laws, appropreated the monies and created this mess. The fact that Bush was in office is secondary, he only issued 5 vetos during his 8 years, so Congress got what they wanted. Who knows, maybe this was planned as a way to implement the largest spending spree I have ever seen? Another day, another $100B. I played by the rules and I have worked within those rules to keep my house and car. I didn't try to job the system, or buy what I couldn't afford. At the end of the day, it is the sub-prime crisis and the morons who couldn't read a mortgage agreement, or just didn't care about the agreement, that has caused this mess. They are the ones who should be thrown in jail.

This is useless! It is like arguing with a 5 year old. There are no time outs and there are no do overs. Mommy isn't going to forgive you. Sometimes life sucks then you die, sometimes life is sweet like sugar. I admit that I have noulterior motives than to protect my income, and by that protect my family. That is MY political ethos. It is non-denominational and race neutral. What I have earned I have earned through hard work. I resent the idea that my hard earned income is going to be confiscated to support somebody who doesn't deserve it. I resent having to pay my bnills while daddy Obama buys back their bad mortgages. I resent playing by the rules and have new rules made to protect just the few people whose mortgages qualify for relief.

I resent the idea that some people just cannot compete. That is not true. It is that reasoning that got us into this mess and it is that reasoning that will sink us. My house, my car payments, my wife, my children, my houses and my properties are my responsibility. I bust my ass to meet those responsibilities. I am not the smartest, or the meanest or the best out there, but I am a minor success. I have gone from out on the streets with only the cloths on my back to where I am today. Nobody helped me, nobody bailed me out. I have a right to bitch about changing the rules.

I ahve done the best I could for my family. I can only hope that my example, my ethic and success, motivates my children to succeed. When they do, I hope they follow the same example I laid out for them. Yeah, I have sympathy for thise less fortunate, but I will protect my own first.

Seems to me the way to create jobs woiuld be to put more money into the economy, not more money into welfare. The quickest way to do that is to cut taxes, the most sustainable way to do that is to cut taxes. When I get my "stimulus" check I will spend it on something I don't need, another one will be coming anyway.

Does anybody the similarities between how Hugo Chavez took power and what Obama is trying to do? Start a class war, act like a hero, nationalize everything. Mirror images.