Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Obama Administration 6,825.42 Nice job Mr. President

the growing magnitude of the economic crisis is such that it in no way can be attributed to this administration's actions. that the rush-publicans are making this assertion is absurd and clearly points to a panic on the party of said party. currently, as we face more and more uncertainty, there are people living in tent camps, jobless and homeless. regardless of what people like ma believe about these people, they are people and nothing short of a populace movement is going to save them, and subsequently ourselves. you can argue about stock markets and banks all frickin' day, but in the end unless we cease this petty arguing here and out in the world, more people will suffer and no one is going to know solace here.

like THAT's the point? how niaive you are Mr Wins

On a serious note here, for just a second, what should we do? I mean, on one side of the aisle we have a group of people who want to raise taxes, create large government programs and socialize basic medical care. On the other side of the aisle we have a group of people who want to cut taxes, allow the market to drive the economy and keep social and medical care alone. Where in that equation is there room for compromise?

I believe in the market. For 30 years the economy has been pretty good. I know what you are saying, this is just the delayed payment for all of those years of greed, but I believe you are wrong. It really is a simple problem I propose to you. We have to opposed movements vying for control. The movement in power is doing their best to initiate a sea change in US domestic policy. They have to act fast before the citizens start to get second thoughts, so they are cramming everything through as quickly as possible, at the expense of the economy. The opposition are spineless jellyfish to are afraid to object too loudly or else they might lose their phoney balony jobs, so they wait.

What I see happening today has never worked in America. It might, but it isn't off to a very good start. The markets, contrary to what is written here, reacts to every anti-marlket pronouncement that the Administration says. The foundation of the market is shakey, the Dow is looking bad but the NasdQ is fundamentallt pretty strong. However, as the banking crisis grows, and Obama's attention is drawn to his agenda, manufacturing suffers. The bad news forces people not to spend money, they might not have a job next month after all, and it forms a kind of panic.

The people who have lost their houses due to being laid off deserve to be helped, but not by allowing the courts to rewrite their loans. The people who were too stupid to look past their current situation should be thrown in jail. The vast majority of people who paid their bills and worked hard to do it should not be put in the position of paying off bad debt because it is politically easier than allowing the housing market to recover on its own.

I don't know what the solution is, but I fear the Obama Administration doesn't know either.

Back the BS

At 1:09 on May 6

6,546.49 -47.95 -0.73%

Hell No, the Obama administration hasn't got any more of a clue than you do. Everything they do is a stab in the dark. Just like the rest of us, all layers of government are just trying to ride this out knowing it will eventually hit bottom and turn back up.

the solution rests in the willingness of people to move beyond the obvious and begin taking action on their own part. there are people doing that now and there are, snicker, community organizers working to see change happen at the community level. the market be damned. currently you are looking for market-based solutions yet the system you are seeking solutions for is self-serving and cares little about you or me. get out and get your hands dirty and begin working for your neighbors, helping them to shore up their situation. in turn you might find that your situation, whether or not is stable now, will be more secure because you would have enacted a policy that you, ma, seem to be faithful to in words, at least, love thy neighbor. take that idea and put it into action. there are myriad ways to do this. if there is going to be change, it has to happen within the culture itself. and until we begin to eliminate, one by one, a culture of selfishness and self-centered actions, then we might as well continue to sit back and point fingers at one of the two parties and just say f*** it.

indeed. and how grateful i am for my naivete and the simplicity that has become the foundation of my day-to-day life. indeed.

It disgusts me that we allow the screaming little girls that run the stock markets to control our perception of reality. The stock market is not the economy, nor is it truly reflective of the economy, nor is it a responsible or reasonable entity, nor is it subject to government action. It is not even "capitalism," really, much as its advocates and adherents try to say it is so. Let's just forget about it and work on the real economy, shall we?

The real economy is based upon production, employment, and sales of goods and services. The real economy is in trouble because of blatantly stupid government policies and blatantly stupid economic activities by people who should have known better. The only solution is for the economy, the real economy, to grow and produce. The only way to get that done is for banks to lend money for worthy endeavors, and, I am afraid, at this juncture, the only way for that to happen is for the government to force them to do so with equity stakes in their operations. It would, frankly, be cheaper for the government to simply buy all of the outstanding stock of the largest banks in the United States, thus "nationalizing" them, and then reprivatize them later. Most people don't realize that the stock in these banks is not nearly as large as their balance sheets. Capitalization of these banks is an incredibly small element of their value. Most of their "value" is in deposits and loans - most of which are sound - and much of which is guaranteed by the federal government anyway. But these banks have been horrendously run and need new management. At least if the citizens are going to have skin in the game, they should have the prospect for a return on their investment. Buy them out, lend money, encourage consumerism which will restart employment, which will get the economy moving again, and then spin them back off and take the profits for the government. How's that for a plan?

i can live with that. you work on that side, i'll continue to work on the, snicker, community organizing side. the two sides should hopefully one day meet and perhaps then a truly new society, one that takes the notion of accountability seriously and not just giving it lip service, shall meet. until then, the old perceptions, arguments etc., be damned.

I agree with most of what you wrote, although I am opposed to nationalization of the banking industry. But the problem runs much deeper than you explained. The Dow is made up of the biggest producers in America. Car companies, defense companies, consumable goods. The Dow is an indication od what is happening economically in America. It is a real life tracking poll of how America feels about America. The marlet soared to 12000 because the average American invested in it, because there was enough money in the economy to buy washing machines, cars and boats. Housing contributed mightilly to that success; lumber, sheet rock, bath fixtures, construction companies, the whole consumer shbang is included in that index. As the Dow goes down real wealth in America goes down with it. Retirement funds, 401K, college funds, everything that the American dream depend on can be directly tied to the health of the Dow. Yeah, its nice to exclude the human factor from the equation and go on theory, but it won't work here.

The real economy IS the market. It is the builders and manufacturers, lumber companies and smelters. The dow losing money means that the companies whose existance is based against their stock price are losing money. When that happens people get laid off, when people get laid off they don't buy new cars or washing machines, so more people get laid off. I know that everybody is looking for some magical new way, but it hasn't been found yet. The world is a consumer based economy. Somebody builds, somebody buys. Take away the buyers and the builders stop building.

The time to experiment is when times are good, not when times are bad.

I am in basic agreement with you, 2wins, that this thread is a string of party-line bullchit. However, you have picqued my curiousity. What specifically are you referring to when you suggest "community organizing"?
Yours,
Issodhos