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Joined: Aug 2006
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So what will you do, then, if you find ourselves under the bootheel of a tyrant? Just get along as best you can and hope the polizei don't kill you? Or do you want to live in a dictatorship? We just did that, Allen. The last 8 years. My owning a little hand gun or even a big 357magnum wouldn't have changed that. Or even something Greger referred to that could be dragged from the back of my car. I got a citation recently inches from my front door for not dragging my seat belt on quick enough. I always wear my seat belt(since I tried to eat a steering wheel more that 20 years ago) I just hadn't got it clicked on yet. I was incensed. Should I have blown his brains out? I just drove through parts of Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina. I don't know what's going on but the police presence was unbelievable in all three states. Blue lights everywhere. Look out everybody. I think states are trying to make some money. God, I hate it. The atmosphere is terrible. But I can't change that with a gun or an arsenal. I know what you're saying Allen. Truly I do. It's why I vote third party and believe so much in trying to change the system. That and my choices come from living with a gun toting paranoid man for many years early in my life. And he was somebody to be frightened of. No, I'll take my chances now. LOL@Naomi. Sometimes it starts sounding a little...ridiculous.
I have a cousin who has six children. He moved the bunch of them away from town. They stockpile food and God knows what else. The children are terrified of everything. He spends a lot of time talking about guns and helicopters and being ready to fight the government. I've got relatives like that too, Emma. Yes Feinstein and Schumer are hypocrites.
"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,010
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,010 |
[quote=Ardy]
I have no reason to think that because he has critics, it means his work is substantially flawed. Yours, Issodhos The existence of critics does not itself invalidate his work. The points made by his critics certainly raises legitimate questions about that work. Even without those questions, one would want some dgree of addidional studies that confirm his results. After all, what might YOU say if all the evidence for Global CLimate change rested upon one single study? Wouldn't you ask for supporting research? If the single study on Global climate change came from a researcher who created an imaginary student to praise his own work... wouldn't you judge the researcher as questionable?
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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That is also what I have read, Slipped (and does that ever upset the gunowner-hating crowd:-). Who is that crowd that hates gun owners? I was just having some fun with modern 'lib' speak, EmmaG. Referring to others as "haters" is popular with some modern 'libs' who use it against those who hold a political or social position contrary to theirs. To be more precise, I could have written, "and does it ever upset those who are intolerant and contemptuous of the lawful conduct of their neighbors, and wish to use the violence of the state to force them to conform to their will". Or I could have written, "and does it ever upset those who have a bigoted view of those persons who elect to exercise their right to the private ownership and use of firearms. But, I didn't.;-) Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,226
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,226 |
Here's something for everyone to consider:
If you don't believe that the simple fact that someone might be armed is indeed a deterrent and if you'd never own a gun then I suggest you encourage others to do the same by doing the following:
Wear a shirt or a pin that says something to the effect that you do not support gun ownership and that you are not armed.
Place a sticker on you car window saying that the occupants do not support gun ownership and are not armed.
Place a sign in your window at home saying that you do not support gun ownership and that there are no guns in the house.
Would you do it? I damned sure wouldn't. I doubt anyone here would. I doubt anyone here will respond and admit that they wouldn't dare do it. The simple fact is that you could be armed is a deterrent. Everyone here knows that, whether you want to admit it or not.
____________________
You, you and you, panic. The rest of you follow me.
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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Are most of them armed? Or are most of them actually without a firearm? That would be important to note if it is to support your argument. No, it wouldn't be important. My argument is related to the statement by Rep. Pelosi in the opening post that she would prevent harm to her person by "taking out" an assailant. Such an action requires the actual use of a firearm, not its mere presence. It may be "related" in the same way a third cousin twice removed by marriage is "related", but that quickly fell away when you made general claims concerning the defensive use of firearms, stereoman. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
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As to the 2003 article by MotherJones? Puh_lese. MotherJones? Perhaps you missed this citation from Yale Law School, or this one from the Journal of Legal Studies, or this one from the National Academy of Science? Mother Jones does a heck of a lot better investigative reporting than world nut daily!  I'm impressed. You selected some sources that are critical of another prof's work. It would maybe be relevant if I were defending John Lott's work in this thread, or if I was using it to support an argument I was making, but i am not. But, it does make a good red herring.;-) As to WND vs MotherJones, neither is a favorite of mine. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
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Those seeking to ban private gun ownership like to reduce firearms ownership to this false argument because they can then avoid the principled, moral, political, and philosophical argument in support of the right to the private ownership and use of firearms, and instead "debate" the effectiveness of guns as defense ad infinitum. Please provide evidence that anyone involved in this discussion, or the national level discussion, "seeks to ban private gun ownership". Anyone advocating a prohibitive tax on ammunition that would result in only the wealthy few being able to use a firearm, are engaged in supporting a defacto ban of firearms, stereoman. I believe you have advocated that in this forum, as well a others. The recently overturned ban on private handgun usage and ownership by the District of Columbia was a gun ban for the vast majority of DC residents, so that was a concrete example not requiring a reliance on a "national level discussion". Chicago still has a handgun ban in effect. But, of course, we will not artificially restrict the conversation to an ill-defined "national level discussion". You can also do a google search if you wish to find organizations that support gun bans. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
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Even without those questions, one would want some dgree of addidional studies that confirm his results. I would be happy to have more studies confirm his findings, Ardy. I would also be happy to have other studies that would correct any inacurracies that may be in his work. In short, I prefer studies that are correct in their findings. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
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This would be like the Swiss militia system: Everybody has a machine gun in their home, but it is kept under stout lock and key. And God help you if any of your issued ammo is missing. *Laughs* Is that true, Pondering? [/quote] Answering for him, no, it is not true.:-) Under this heading there are only four threads, two started by Issodhos and two by Lone Hawk. Was there a purpose to you making this false claim, Greger? Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,646 |
Please provide evidence that anyone involved in this discussion, or the national level discussion, "seeks to ban private gun ownership". Anyone advocating a prohibitive tax on ammunition that would result in only the wealthy few being able to use a firearm, are engaged in supporting a defacto ban of firearms, stereoman. Oh. I should have realized that you would create your own definition, since no generally accepted definition would fit. My bad. The recently overturned ban on private handgun usage and ownership by the District of Columbia was a gun ban for the vast majority of DC residents, so that was a concrete example not requiring a reliance on a "national level discussion". Handguns are suddenly the only type of firearm? It would maybe be relevant if I were defending John Lott's work in this thread, or if I was using it to support an argument I was making, but i am not. So you brought up Lott's study as a red herring. Ah, good. Glad to have that out of the way. It may be "related" in the same way a third cousin twice removed by marriage is "related", but that quickly fell away when you made general claims concerning the defensive use of firearms, stereoman. It may be much more closely related, but I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge that. Nor do I expect you to actually respond to the arguments I raise. No one is required to do that on this board. They stand as offered.
Steve Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love, to respect and be kind to one another, so that we may grow with peace in mind. (Native American prayer)
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