Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Obama Administration Do we need more torture photos?

I agree. I also think that those top political and government honchos who initiated the un-necessary invasion of Iraq and those who authorized or allowed torture should be tried in American courts and, if found guilty, put into cages for an adequate number of years as a warning to the next set of honchos not to do the same.

I also think that Andrew Sullivan, an enthusiastic cheerleader for the un-necessary Iraq invasion, would be more than happy to see the pictures disappear so that he would not have to see what he helped to initiate. The same is probably true of another establishment cheerleader of the un-necessary invasion, Thomas Friedman, an over-rated pencil-pushing thug for the NYT (the establishment paper of record) which also was "bullish" on the un-necessary invasion in pushing the nukes-over-America myth. In fact, it would be nice to see these and other propagandists held accountable for their part in the orchestrated campaign of deceit that led up to the invasion. Unfortunately, thugs like Friedman, William Kristol, Krauthammer, Sullivan etc., are a part of the establishment elite and thus forgiven their screw-ups and allowed to continue to front as skilled analysts of the world.

I also think the goal now for Obamans is to provide President Obama cover from his former position of supporting the release of the photos to his new position of burying them. Hence the rationalizing about the troops and foreign opinion. It is a party thing.
Yours,
Issodhos

During the early days of World War 2 photographs showing American dead were a no-no because it might upset people. Finally, someone - either FDR or George Marshall - decided that, no, the American people need to see what the war was about, what was being done in their name, and what the costs were.

Thus, we were subsequently treated to photos in Life of the maggot-laden corpses of GIs half-buried in the sands of New Guinea beaches, and of the bloated bodies of hundreds of Marines bobbing in the sea off of Tarawa...

...it was shocking, but it finally brought home to the nation what was being done and what the awful price was.

Thus, the pictures should be released, as this nation must know what is being done in the name of all of us...

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Germans were forced to go into the concentration camps to see what their government had done.

Why shouldn't the same thing happen to Americans?

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Thank you, Mick.
Everything that you said.

Damn right the photos should be released.
This is starting to feel like lala land.
What is it going to take for us to do something/pay attention/change something?

I have a hard time addressing this. Much as I know the pictures need to be seen -- I really, really, really don't want to see them.

Mind and heart/stomach are at odds on this one; it certainly isn't right for me to clamor for their release so that other people can see them.

I know what's right here; I'm just not dealing with it properly yet.

I don't want to see them either, Mellow.
But for me it's "the truth hurts" thing, and so it should.
Torture is horrible. We're doing it.
We need to own up to it and we need to say STOP IT!
If that means me/you looking at the photos to get it stopped, so be it.

Um, Olyve? That's pretty much what I said, only less emphatically.

Because, as much as you might like to wish it so, the equivilency isn't there, numan.;-)
Yours,
Issodhos

There isn't an equivalency, and the main point is being missed here: it is not exposure to the people of the United States that is the threat. If it were, I would have no compunction about releasing the photos - they are what they are. But...

These photographs, whatever they are, will not add to our knowledge in any meaningful way. We have already seen enough to understand. We know that they exist and the nature of what they disclose. These particular exemplars don't add to the process of determining who knew what when, who ordered what, or how widespread the problem was. We know all that already, and we can take action if we have the political will. What will they add to the process? Nothing of merit.

As a photographer, and former newspaper photographer, I am well aware of the impact that photographs can have, and the unintended consequences they can generate. The concern, and it is a legitimate one, of opening the wounds of those who suffered, and the lands where that suffering occurred, is real. The reaction that they will engender, and it will be negative, visceral and uncontrolled, is dangerous - 2004-5 demonstrated that, when the first wave of photos were released. Worse, they will become a source of propaganda and the propagation of lies and distortions by the enemies of humanity that we are, indeed, engaged with. Far from being "truthful" photographs can lie most remarkably and seamlessly so one doesn't know that it is a lie in the hands of one bent on deception, and those impressions are indelible.

And who will benefit? The victims won't, because they will relive the horrors they experienced. The perpetrators won't. And most importantly, in this case, the public won't - because it won't add to our knowledge but will skew perceptions. The question isn't should these pictures be available for necessary procedures - such as trials - they will be. Might they come out in that context? Yes. The problem here is that their release now is without context and so others will be providing the context - and their motives are far from pure. We forget that America is not like the rest of the world - even the rest of the developed world - and the openness that we cherish is toxic in other places. I admire it, I love it, I want it to succeed, and I want us to be as open a society as possible, but... There are limits and consequences, and in this circumstance, and at this time, I think the consequences outweigh the merits of disclosure.

What happens within the confines of a government courtroom or within the confines of a government committee room is secondary to providing the American people with images that will bring home to them what has been done (assuming the pictures are worse than the previously released pictures) without relying on government officials who have filtered and sanitized the actions allegedly represented in the photos. Any legal action or other investigation and repremand is secondary to morally angering the American citizenry to the point where they would at least politically punish the instigators of these actions, and hopefully show enough rage to later exact enough legal and social punishment to result in instilling enough fear in any agent of the state who might even think of engaging in such actions in future. In other words, the real point is to make sure the new administration or the next administration does not think that it too can get away with torture.
Yours,
Issodhos