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When inflation was finally contained the markets took off. Ahhh...I'll bet Bob Brinker was in pig-heaven. Thanks for your post Ken.
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Falling.... Falling.... Falling Masses of Unreason.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ And the dominoes keep falling.... Merrill Sells $8.55 Billion of Stock, Unloads CDOs July 29 (Bloomberg) -- Merrill Lynch & Co. took the biggest step toward recovering from the worst financial disaster in its 94-year history by acknowledging that $30.6 billion of its holdings are worth barely a fifth of their original price and securing new capital amounting to a third of its market value.
Merrill liquidated more than half of the mortgage-linked securities that have saddled the company with $27 billion of writedowns since the beginning of 2007. To cushion the loss on the asset disposal, the firm raised $8.55 billion today by selling new shares for $22.50 each, 60 percent less than Merrill's stock price at the beginning of the year. Almost $19 billion of net losses in the past year forced Chief Executive Officer John Thain to backtrack on assurances that the firm had enough capital to weather the credit crisis. Since taking the post in December, Thain has raised $30 billion in an effort to keep pace with mounting charges on mortgage bonds amassed by his predecessor, Stan O'Neal. Standard & Poor's cut the firm's debt rating last month and signaled that more downgrades were possible.
Beyond Zero
Thain "s trying to control the mess that he inherited,'' Scott Rothbort, president of Lakeview Asset Management LLC, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. "I would not rule out at this point their having to write down even more, but you can't write things down beyond zero."
Last edited by numan; 08/12/08 07:42 PM.
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The witty and provocative Dmitry Orlov is well worth reading:Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the USMy talk tonight is about the lack of collapse-preparedness here in the United States. I will compare it with the situation in the Soviet Union, prior to its collapse. The rhetorical device I am going to use is the "Collapse Gap" – to go along with the Nuclear Gap, and the Space Gap, and various other superpower gaps that were fashionable during the Cold War.
The subject of economic collapse is generally a sad one. But I am an optimistic, cheerful sort of person, and I believe that, with a bit of preparation, such events can be taken in stride. As you can probably surmise, I am actually rather keen on observing economic collapses. Perhaps when I am really old, all collapses will start looking the same to me, but I am not at that point yet. And this next one certainly has me intrigued. From what I've seen and read, it seems that there is a fair chance that the U.S. economy will collapse sometime within the foreseeable future. It also would seem that we won't be particularly well-prepared for it. As things stand, the U.S. economy is poised to perform something like a disappearing act. And so I am eager to put my observations of the Soviet collapse to good use. An economic collapse is amazing to observe, and very interesting if described accurately and in detail. A general description tends to fall short of the mark, but let me try. An economic arrangement can continue for quite some time after it becomes untenable, through sheer inertia. But at some point a tide of broken promises and invalidated assumptions sweeps it all out to sea. One such untenable arrangement rests on the notion that it is possible to perpetually borrow more and more money from abroad, to pay for more and more energy imports, while the price of these imports continues to double every few years. Free money with which to buy energy equals free energy, and free energy does not occur in nature. This must therefore be a transient condition. When the flow of energy snaps back toward equilibrium, much of the US economy will be forced to shut down. Economic collapse is about the worst possible time for someone to suffer a nervous breakdown, yet this is what often happens. The people who are most at risk psychologically are successful middle-aged men. When their career is suddenly over, their savings are gone, and their property worthless, much of their sense of self-worth is gone as well. They tend to drink themselves to death and commit suicide in disproportionate numbers. Since they tend to be the most experienced and capable people, this is a staggering loss to society. If the economy, and your place within it, is really important to you, you will be really hurt when it goes away. You can cultivate an attitude of studied indifference, but it has to be more than just a conceit. You have to develop the lifestyle and the habits and the physical stamina to back it up. It takes a lot of creativity and effort to put together a fulfilling existence on the margins of society. After the collapse, these margins may turn out to be some of the best places to live.
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Pooh-Bah
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I am just wondering if there is something apocalyptic in human nature. To me, the rather regular talk of the coming economic collapse is not far different than the constant reminders from our religious friends that we are in the final hours.
It is not that I do not agree that the economy has been horribly mismanaged. And who knows, perhaps the collapse is on it's way. But having hears such predictions so often, I am a little skeptical in nature.
Historically speaking, the super nova type ending of empires is relatively rare. More common by far is the gradual wasting away.
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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stranger
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It is not that I do not agree that the economy has been horribly mismanaged. And who knows, perhaps the collapse is on it's way. But having hears such predictions so often, I am a little skeptical in nature. Thank you. That is how I feel. I don't pretend to know a lot about economics. Math hurts my brain. But what I do know is what I see in my household. We are almost debt free, (we have a van to pay off), except our house. We are throwing money into a money market each month. We have the cash to do fun things and to repair our home. If I believed everything I read or heard on the news, then I would be holed up in my home and trying to Ebay everything I owned. Part of the problems with our current economic state is: 1. Companies looking at those with bad credit as potential money makers. 2. People with bad credit wanting something for nothing. 3. People with nothing trying to live the American dream without realizing that it takes work to achieve that dream. 4. The government putting its hands in everything and trying to save ourselves from ourselves. There is more I know, but that is the basics as I see it.
"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it is free." - Herman Cain
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Part of the problems with our current economic state is: 1. Companies looking at those with bad credit as potential money makers. 2. People with bad credit wanting something for nothing. 3. People with nothing trying to live the American dream without realizing that it takes work to achieve that dream. 4. The government putting its hands in everything and trying to save ourselves from ourselves.
There is more I know, but that is the basics as I see it. 1. Companies looking at those with bad credit as potential money makers. Not any more. I'm in the market for a house. Credit must be pristine. Income must be pristine. Credit standards have tightened immensely.2. People with bad credit wanting something for nothing. People with GOOD credit want something for nothing. People with MONEY want something for nothing3. People with nothing trying to live the American dream without realizing that it takes work to achieve that dream. That's over - if they haven't already ruined their credit or walked away from their upside down mortgage, credit has tightened to the extent that this group is eliminated from the get-go in the pre-qual processes.4. The government putting its hands in everything and trying to save ourselves from ourselves. That's why GWB is being labled a psudeo conservative - by conservatives.
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old hand
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More common by far is the gradual wasting away. Are you speaking of our bodies Ardy, or the economy? Yes indeed humans like the idea of apocalypses. It gets the blood pumping. Utter destruction, chaos, wailing and gnashing of teeth, people eating people on busses—the list goes on. But humans want stuff and will continue to want stuff. The cost and supply of energy and materials are the question mark. Western economies were built on cheap energy and plentiful resources. Both are gettting more expensive so that is why I see a slowing, but not a collapse, of the global economy. Global have nots want stuff and will buy stuff if they have the money. It’s all new to them so they haven’t yet realized you cannot buy happiness. But you can try. So as long as their economies grow and build a middle class I do not envision catastrophe. The plight of the middle class in the US is another story. My crystal ball predicts the “iron law of wages” taking hold whereby wages for workers in the US drop and wages in developing countries rise, meeting somewhere near to each other. That will lead to wailing and gnashing of teeth in the Western world and will make for an interesting political sell.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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1. Companies looking at those with bad credit as potential money makers. Not any more. I'm in the market for a house. Credit must be pristine. Income must be pristine. Credit standards have tightened immensely. Not quite true. I work for a mortgage company and I can tell you that there are plenty of good deals to be had if you know where to look. There are a lot of houses for sale by banks and quite a few short sales as well. Also, if you haven't walked away from a government loan, a bankruptcy doesn't look as bad as you think. After 2 years, with a good income (compared to the value of the house you want to buy) and reasonable level of debt (total Debt to Income ratio under 45%) you can get a good 30 year fixed rate around 6.5% right now.
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. ~Chinese Proverb
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese. ~Jon Hammond
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Historically speaking, the super nova type ending of empires is relatively rare. More common by far is the gradual wasting away. You are right about history, but history is not a good guide to understanding many aspects of the present era. The pace of history has quickened and intensified; the whole twentieth century was like a super-nova explosion in history, and it is a guarantee that the present century will make the twentieth look pretty tame. Most Americans in 1930 did not realize that the world they had known was finished, never to return ---- gone with the wind. The next few years will drive the point home ---- America as we have known it no longer exists ----- no human agency on Earth can change that fact. Adapt or perish. [edited]....or both. ________________
Last edited by numan; 08/13/08 07:32 PM.
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This far into a discussion about the pending economic collapse and yet no mention of peak oil????
The industrialization of the entire world was built upon cheap oil in the last 100 years and oil is part of almost every aspect of the current way of life.
Leading geologists agree that no large undiscovered oil fields remain anywhere in the world and demand continues to skyrocket. If there are those on this thread who believe "peak oil" is a skam, they need only point out where the large oil fields are and compare that to the world's current and future demand and the light will begin to shine above your head like a light bulb in a cartoon.
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