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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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OP
Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
NWP, your tears would be misspent. As has been demonstrated time and again, if left to the voters there would be no Bill of Rights at all, well, except for the 2nd Amendment.
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853 |
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Cicero said: Non est enim consilium in vulgo, non ratio, non discrimen, non diligentia....
For there is no deliberation in the crowd, no method, no analysis, no attentiveness....
Einstein wrote: One is born into a herd of buffaloes and must be glad if one is not
trampled underfoot before one's time.
The mass of people will never become reasonable through argument. It is possible to train them to behave like civilized human beings, and from there, if they are lucky, they may make the jump to thought and awareness.
All this is very elementary, and has been known since at least the time of Cicero.
Wise up, people! Bend your efforts to training the vulgar herd, not trying to convince them!
That is what the people who run America do, so fight fire with fire!
Is it really necessary to spell out something so obvious?
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28 |
NW Ponderer said, “…what I find sad is how pervasive that lack of critical thinking is.” My sense is that if you truly harness your obvious intellect to the rigors of “critical thinking”, the combination may take you to a place you do not want to be.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
More progress... Nevada legalizing domestic partnerships - CNN Nevada is legalizing domestic partnerships, with the state Assembly voting Sunday evening to override a veto by the governor, officials said.
The Assembly voted 28-14 to override Gov. Jim Gibbons' veto of a domestic partner bill, said Kathy Alden of the chief clerk's office.
With the vote, Nevada will extend most of the rights given to married couples to couples in domestic partnerships, including those of the same sex. The bill will take effect on October 1.
The Nevada Senate overrode the the governor's veto 14-7 on Saturday. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. single-digit approval Governor Gibbons. Even his wife voted against him ( What Dawn Gibbons said) - but then, he should be used to it by now... Nevada Lawmakers Make Gibbons Most-Overridden Governor In State History
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
And yet more news, good and bad... Md. AG considers recognizing gay marriages: Maryland Attorney General Douglas F. Gansler is looking into whether the state can recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states, and his office plans to issue an opinion in the coming weeks.
State law defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman, but Maryland also sticks to a long-standing legal principle that generally acknowledges couples married elsewhere.
Gansler, a Democrat, supports gay marriage. While Maryland has extended a variety of protections to same-sex couples in recent years, it has stopped short of legalizing marriages or civil unions. Gov. Martin O'Malley, also a Democrat, supports the latter. - Chicago Tribune; Duane: Same-sex marriage bill will pass this session: Sen. Thomas Duane, standing in front of a crowd of same-sex couples in The Well of the Legislative Office Building this afternoon, said the bill to legalize same-sex marriage in New York would be coming to the floor this session, and furthermore, it has the votes necessary to pass. - Legislative Gazzette, NY; Petitioners begin seeking signatures to repeal gay marriage: PLYMOUTH, Maine — The race to get enough signatures to put a question on the ballot that would ask voters to repeal the same-sex marriage bill passed by the Maine State Legislature and signed into law by Gov. John Baldacci on May 6 began in earnest this week. - Bangor Daily News - which led to Homosexual Group Challenges Tax-Exempt Status of Catholic Church in Maine for Opposing Same-Sex : A homosexualist group is seeking to strip the Catholic Diocese of Portland of its tax-exempt status, after the diocese announced it would gather support for a voter's referendum on the new same-sex "marriage" law. - LifeSiteNews via Tips-Q; RHODE ISLAND RESIDENTS FAVOR SAME-SEX: State could be next to pass law.: While the pendulum on same-sex marriage swings back and forth in California, a survey suggests more than sixty percent of the voters in Rhode Island favor a law allowing gay marriage in their state.
A Brown University poll released last week shows 60 percent of registered voters in the state would vote for a same-sex marriage state referendum if it was put to a vote. Only thirty-one percent of registered voters said they were opposed.
Legislators could legalize gay marriage in the state if a bill now before the state House and Senate is approved. EurWeb.com; and finally, Same-sex marriage issue on Pa. stage: Over the past two weeks, dueling same-sex marriage proposals in the state legislature have pushed the issue back to the forefront.
State Sen. John Eichelberger, R-30, two weeks ago announced plans to introduce a bill amending the state Constitution to ban same-sex marriage.
This week, state Sen. Daylin Leach, D-17, said he plans to introduce legislation offering “full and equal marriage rights” to same-sex couples.
Same-sex marriage in Pennsylvania is banned by statute, which could be overturned by the legislature. Previous proposals to either outlaw it constitutionally or legalize it have fallen short.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
Like I've said before: A big mess.
The root of all that mess is the intertanglement of government and religion. Government sanction of a religious rite puts government directly in the middle of a conflict between the religious beliefs of some groups versus other groups, and that is expressly forbidden by the Constitution.
The only way to untangle this Gordian Knot is with one bold stroke: Let government administer civil unions, which would be required to have a relationship reconized by government agencies, tax code, law, etc. Since there would be no religious aspect to these civil unions, there should be little objection to offering them to all adults of sound mind regardless of their genders. That's what is required for Equal Treatment Under the Law.
Then let religious organizations offer any sort of Marriage Rites they like to their members or the general public. A church Marriage Ceremony would have no legal standing, but churches (et al) could still perform any sort of marriage rites their creed required. That's what is required for Freedom of Religion.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
I completely agree, Pondering. There is a State interest in marriages, but it is administrative in nature, and none of the State interests relate to "procreation" or other choices that are personal and private matters of the participants therein. It is supremely insulting to me whenever religious-based arguments are brought into the discussion. I watched "Milk" last night, and the actual news clips that were intercut into the story were astounding. When one Senator invoked "God's Law" I wanted to scream for his impeachment! Of course, he's probably dead now, since that was 30+ years ago... although, in some places, times have not changed so much. I tend to agree with those who object to churches organizing and assisting the campaigns. It is time to reassert our rights as citizens and put the religious organizations back into their boxes.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,850
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,850 |
I especially like the story about the effort to strip the diocese of its special status as an apolitical organization! We are way past the point in time when that should have been done. It would be fascinating to see what organized "religion" would do if it had to decide between being politically active or protecting its huge holdings in real estate and treasury from taxation!
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,850
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,850 |
Will post it again: I don't need a priest to form or dissolve a business partnership; why do I need one to form a personal partnership? And why do my personal business affairs (survivor benefits, tax status, etc.) depend on whether I did or didn't go beyond the simple filing of papers to a "holy" event?
And once concluded, if I want to take my partnership (business or personal) to church or some other place to be "blessed" that should have no effect on the legal status of the relationship.
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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OP
Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
Current law regarding both corporations and marriages are very much the same with regard to forming and ending them. Both are subject to complex statutes, but not any priest.
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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