Capitol Hill Blue Forums Capitol Hill Blue Opinions CHB Columnists Bush & Cheney are traitors: Treat them as such

--The process by which such a party will be created will be deemed by state laws to be illegal, thus decertifying said party in a majority of states.
If that touches off a revolution, so be it.
It will be a good thing.
A little revolution every now and then is a healthy thing.
If it doesn't, we're in deep trouble.

But either way, an actual VIABLE third party will be branded as illegal the moment it is created in a majority of states by virtue of the influence of the other two parties on state election law.

You're probably right.

just a reminder

erm why are these guys not in jail?

Hey I am not attempting to discourage the formation of a third party, just putting out the warning that it won't be easy.
The system has tolerated third parties the way a cow tolerates barn flies, and for the last 90 years all they've done is create a wedge to take votes away from one candidate or the other from the two main parties.

But the moment a third party actually was to threaten to take over either main party we would see some sort of end run to remove them from power. The RNC and DNC will never tolerate such a move, any more than the old PRI was willing to tolerate anything which constituted a threat to their stranglehold on Mexican politics for 78 years.
In fact, that's where I am drawing the bulk of my assessment from. There is an elite hardwired into either the Dem or GOP model and if anything threatens their hold on power they will attempt to use the law as a bludgeon in an effort to dissuade voters from any long term loyalty.
The old saws about how useless it is to vote for candidates that can't win will come up, the demonization, but in the end each state's party offices will try their level best to outright prevent access.

I am convinced that it will take an uprising of some kind to force the two major parties to step aside and allow a functioning third party, because in the end what we are looking at is NOT the "creation of a third party" but rather the DISSOLUTION of one of the OTHER PARTIES.

Think about it, there is NO WAY that the GOP would survive a mass defection to a viable third party, and the Dems ain't goin nowhere soon honey!

So what we are actually talking about is an almost nonfunctional GOP with very few members and almost NO POWER, and a NEW party that takes their place for the most part.

The GOP won't put up with it and the Dems aren't going to be very happy either.

You know the rest.

YEAH BABY! That's what I'm talkin' about!
The Gone Old Party

Gimme the Whigs, Gimme the Tories, Gimme the Bull Moose Party! Just gimme the heads of the Republican Party on a Platter!
Until one or the other is dragged down nothing new can emerge.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'.
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

My premise: we saw the impact of Ross Perot's third party on the '92 and '96 elections. Plenty of room for argument, but one can interpret the numbers to suggest that in '92 in particular, Clinton doesn't win without Perot pulling votes away from Bush. Less clear that he had a meaningful impact on '96. Then in 2000, the Nader Green party candidacy clearly affected the outcome of that election, carrying enough votes that almost certainly would have gone to Gore had he not been in the race to make Florida matter. Gore loses. But in both cases, the third party was almost exclusively focused on the presidential ballot.

My prediction: Sarah Palin and those who think she is represents them will focus on state and local elections in 2010, trying to establish a beachhead in state legislatures and the House of Representatives. They believe that will give them the base from which to take the presidential election in 2012. At the state and local level, the national parties cannot stop them; they will be able to mount sufficiently energetic petition drives to get their candidates on the ballots in local elections, including Congressional districts. They will lose virtually every race. They will take away from Republican candidates, incumbents and first-timers, the base on which Nixon built his southern coalition, the alleged "moral majority" which, as we all know, was neither. These folks have voted for the GOP in every election since. They are the disciples of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove. They will vote for the Palin tickets in these elections, eviscerating Republican performance at the polls in the states where these voters have dominated electoral politics. Democrats will win even more seats than they hold today. The GOP, which has become the party of the south and west (minus the coast) will become the party of just the west (minus the coast). And neither the Palin party nor the GOP will be able to mount any credible run at the White House in 2012 unless the economy goes even lower or some similar horrific profile exists at that time. Unlikely.

But the good news is that the GOP will then finally reform itself as a center-right party, reclaiming the center that elected Reagan and forcing the Democrats further to the left. By 2016, there will be a fringe right party, a fringe left party, and two major parties fighting over the middle. Who knows what they will all call themselves. But Palin is going to expose the rotten underbelly of the GOP electoral cynicism for the whole world to recognize fully.

Spot on Big Boy! This is gonna be fun.

Actually, control of the issue of 'money' is still in the hands of the government. The Treasury and the Federal Reserve "issue" it, and the banking system, through the implimentation of "fractional banking", facilitates its distribution. It has been the government, in collusion with major houses of finance, that has brought us to the current mess we are in. Thomas J. had it bass ackwards.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos

Just curious...
setting aside our view of their actions and decisions... where is the evidence that they were intentionally acting against national interests?

I think it is profoundly important that some one who is to be labeled as a traitor should consciously have acted in a manner that regards national interest and serves only his own.... as for example Nixon.

We would indeed know the answer to that question and more if Congress actually wanted to know and wanted the public to know the answers. It does not. Washington does not.

I remind you of Nancy Pelosi's "impeachment is off the table". Obama appears to want to continue some of the questionable practices of Bush and Cheney or, at least, to let the sleeping dogs of the Bush Administration lie.

There is a non-partisan effort to let Bush and his capal of Constitutional criminals off the hook. Strange how easily members of Congress can work together on some things.