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Originally Posted by numan
'

Meanwhile, back in the world of High Culture, which alone makes life worth living....

For my Low Culture friends - may I attempt translation? It's difficult to get the nuances just right, but I believe this comment falls somewhere between "Oh, yeah?" and "Your mama!"


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LOL! Exactly, Mellow.

In fact, I've often wondered why such a brilliant, learned and cultured non-American, such as Numan, spends a great measure of his time on an American Internet site that focuses largely on American issues of politics and other forms of low culture.

How cultured is hatred, vitriol and obsession?

Numan gonna ride that one trick pony and call it good.


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Originally Posted by Slipped Mickey
And poetry. Sweet Jesus, would that be better if women were nekkid when they read that crap in front of an audience!

I'm most grateful that poetry is not an American creation. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that poetry was first conceived in the brain of some Canadian wandering around Italy high on mushrooms.

I've actually been to a poetry reading - once. Show me a guy who willingly goes to a poetry reading and I'll show you one desperate sumbitch trying to get laid.

I was tricked into going by an account in Chicago. It was a horrible experience. People clapped and murmured in awe, women cried. It was disgusting, truly. I pretended to have eaten a bad chilli dog for lunch and hurriedly excused my way to the Gents.

As soon as made it to the lobby of the little theater I grabbed an usher and demanded to be escorted to the bar, "quickly". There wasn't one. Or it wasn't open for the reading, fear clouds the memory. I saw two other guys, terror stricken, looking for a portal to reality. I followed them outside and bummed a smoke (I had long since quit). The three of us stood in the cold Chicago night mumbling about fate, trickery and not getting laid.
dang, mick! this is pure poetry in its own right. only a southern boy can be so poetic with such low country slams. i would like to title this piece "the ballad of bubba." ROTFMOL

Last edited by 2wins; 08/27/09 11:34 AM.

sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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Originally Posted by numan
Starting no earlier than the era when the ill-begotten American Republic was formed, one might mention Mozart and Beethoven in music, and Goethe in literature, who by themselves outshine the whole pantheon of American practitioners of their respective arts.

So, if I understand correctly....
you are saying that by 1700 (approximately) the settlers in North America should be artistically compared with the cultures of Europe... which had been there for 1000 years or more (approximately)... and this, taking into account that in some measure, the people who came to settle in North America would not have done so (for the most part) if they already had settled and successful lives in their former countries.

If that is what you are saying Numan, it is really quite absurd.

-----

I would also observe that generally, it seems that modern culture has produced fewer great artistic geniuses than in the past. Who is the last Beethoven or Shakespeare? And, if there is a reason that modern "culture" produces fewer artistic giants... then it is logical that the same dynamic would be active in America.

I do not claim that America has been some great artistic wellspring. But, compared to Europe in the same time frame, artistic output over the last 100 years seems about right given the fact that these are new countries are without the established institutions and traditions of our European cousins.


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John Ciardi, an American poet who perhaps should have been included in my first list, proposes a theory of great art that says it appeals first to the people in the time when it is created. Then, throughout history, great art will still hold its appeal in other eras. By that theory--which makes sense to me--none of us knows what will be great art from our time. Ciardi's approach makes more sense IMHO than dismissing an entire culture.


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Originally Posted by humphreysmar
John Ciardi, an American poet who perhaps should have been included in my first list, proposes a theory of great art that says it appeals first to the people in the time when it is created. Then, throughout history, great art will still hold its appeal in other eras. By that theory--which makes sense to me--none of us knows what will be great art from our time. Ciardi's approach makes more sense IMHO than dismissing an entire culture.
we could argue that mark twain's work is then great literary art, counter to earlier comments by one person here. twain's work is revered both here and abroad. it has managed to stay relevant for over a century now.


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Originally Posted by 2wins
we could argue that mark twain's work is then great literary art, counter to earlier comments by one person here. twain's work is revered both here and abroad. it has managed to stay relevant for over a century now.



That's the one American I'd put in for sure.


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Originally Posted by humphreysmar
John Ciardi, an American poet who perhaps should have been included in my first list, proposes a theory of great art that says it appeals first to the people in the time when it is created. Then, throughout history, great art will still hold its appeal in other eras. By that theory--which makes sense to me--none of us knows what will be great art from our time. Ciardi's approach makes more sense IMHO than dismissing an entire culture.

I would think that Ciardi's theory is borne out by history. Those who attended the Great Bard's plays at the Globe Theater were certainly not "high brow." I would imagine that there were "numans" back then who considered his plays "second-ratef" and not worthy of consideration as a "classic."

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chuck,

excellent point! the globe was attended by a number of different folks, most of the poor uneducated sloths! Ha! My how, things change but seem to stay the same. and i want to add that the globe was pop culture of the time, as you point out, not thought of highly by the upper crust.

Last edited by 2wins; 08/27/09 04:20 PM.

sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!
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"the ballad of bubba"
Well there you go, numan.
Mick is proof positive of what you say.
We aint go no couth.

It's like trying to clean up trailer trash.
He's moved all the way out there to Arizona from Georgia to try and get him some and you see what happened.
Not a damn thing worked!
You can just imagine what my world is like still back here in Georgia.

Yes, 2wins, we do enjoy our music and art here very much and feel quite blessed. smile
But then, I'm easy to please apparently. wink




"Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...it's about learning how to dance in the rain."
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