Capitol Hill Blue Forums Misc. Topics Ain't This America What is distinctive about American art and letters

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Is it really true that you are not hyper-sensitive?

When the strongest criticism that you can make about someone is their "tone," rather than the content of what they say, you are starting down a very slippery slope. "Tone" is notoriously subjective; what one person may interpret as insulting, another person will see as mere joshing.

My views are very often sardonic; I am constantly seeing the absurdities in human life, and I am indeed sometimes sarcastic. You would see these characteristics developed to a much higher degree in the writings of Gore Vidal, George Bernard Shaw, Aldous Huxley, and even Mark Twain. Very few literary critics would interpret the styles of these notable figures as "insulting."

PS: I forgot to include Gore Vidal in my list of notable American literary figures. He is unusual among American writers in being genuinely witty --- though being an American, his wit is not as subtle as that of, say, George Bernard Shaw. His novels about American history are about as accurate as a novelist can make them, and are more objective than the canting boosterism of most "professional" American historians! Even more, I like his novel based on the life of the last pagan emperor of Rome, the Emperor Julian. Even more than his novels, I like his beautifully written essays. He is not always right, but his errors are more impressive than most people's truths.

Well, guess what, numan. I find you insulting.

That is a matter of taste and personal psychology. For an insult to exist, there must be someone who feels it to be an insult.

I, for instance, do not feel insulted by your personal comments about me.

.

(my acknowledgment of your dramatization in red bold)
I am always on alert when someone starts off by telling how important their information is.

The above struck me.
How did you escape that fate, numan?

You use the word "you" in such an all encompassing way.

I wonder if you're doing some sort of transference here.

I mean are you saying that every single American who chose not to leave...like you of course...is exactly the same? (( mean after all some people can't leave for various reasons..kinda like Katrina. you know?)
Every single one of us has allowed ourselves to be manipulated and propagandized?
Every single one of us lives a plastic life?
When you use the word "you" in such a broad sense is that what you mean?
You can't talk to any one of us as an individual?

I mean...and I mean this seriously...you sound a little bit like a zombie to me. It is starting to sound like some sort of spiel.

That is a serious observation, numan.
What's your point? Why are you here?

As a whole, this country has a crummy record.
I agree with that and worry about our future.
I'm pissed off at some Americans too and spend a lot of time bemoaning their stupidity.

But as an individual, I live a very modest simple life (very) and it works very well for me.

numan, this is not in any way an attack. But I think I can see part of the communication problem.

Emma says she finds you to be insulting.
You respond that in order for insult to exist, someone must feel the insult. Although Emma has just explained that she does feel the insult, you negate her completely by saying that since you don't see insult, it doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist for you, but it does exist for her. But her perspective doesn't seem to be important to you.

Emma has been posting here for some time; her posts are well-written, on topic, and generally backed up by facts. She deserves more respect than a simple negation.

In fact, everyone here - including you - deserves that. It is the courtesy of listening to what others have to say, and responding. It is a very basic part of what the Rant is all about. The Ranter mission statement says "At Reader Rant, everyone is expected to treat each other with dignity and respect. " That is crucial to the conversations here.

Sometimes it truly isn't about what is said, but how it is said - or what is heard. And it has to be a two-way street - otherwise, it's a monologue, not a dialogue. The Rant is a dialogue; a monologue is better suited to a weblog.

Excellently explained, Mellow!

"What is distinctive about American art and let"

I also agree with Mello's post. But want to return to a general comment on the initial topic:

"What is distinctive about American art and letters"

I wonder why there would be anything particularly distinctive?
I am not saying there is not... just wondering why there would be?

From a logical perspective, America has been peopled by settlers mostly from Europe (initially) And later on, from all over the world.

Is there a reason why these people would arrive on these shores and lose any previous inclination towards arts and letters? Or is there some presumption that the governments of Europe had some policies that were essential for the creativity of Beethoven and Shakespeare?

Even if we were to reach some agreement that the arts of the USA are pathetic, or worse even.... what is the point? Is there something about the USA that disallows meaningful creative expression?

Thank you, Mellow.
Speaks my mind.

Good thoughts, Ardy. I would be interested in that perspective too.
Some of this actual is a good conversation if we can keep it positive instead of condescending and dogmatic.

I'm not sure this has been asked yet but it just occurred to me, what kind of fine art, etc has come out of Canada?
Of course there is Neil Young who I admire greatly.

And Joni Mitchell, of course. But they are both popular artists and do not qualify according to what we've been hearing.

There are, in fact, a large number of Canadians who have come the US, many of them permanently; I am very fond of David Rakoff and especially love his story of becoming a citizen (he had been living here for a long time, but after the 2000 election arrived, he knew he wanted to be able to vote in 2004.) Hmm. His story is rather diametrically opposed to our numan's.

In terms of writers, there are of course Margaret Atwood and Michael Ondaatje (Sri Lankan born,) but again they're both still living so would not qualify. W.P. Kinsella, Alic Munro - again, though, they're current.

Go back further, I guess, and I'm not that familiar with Canadian culture; my older Canadian reading is limited to young peoples' work like Mrs. Mike and the "Anne of Green Gables" series.

Oh. Wait. One of the most famous Canadian writers of all: Robert W. Service.

"A bunch of the boys were whooping it up in the Malamute saloon;
The kid that handles the music-box was hitting a jag-time tune;
Back of the bar, in a solo game, sat Dangerous Dan McGrew,
And watching his luck was his light-o'-love, the lady that's known as Lou. "

Maybe we'd better back up and consider Ondaatje; to my mind one of the finest English-language writers of the late 20th century.