Originally Posted by Phil
Isn't this back and forth about which President did or did not do what just what those who hold real power use to keep themselves in power? Politics isn't scored this way. The real scoreboard always shows Team People losing by a large margin.

Too-FRICKIN-Shay, Phil...well said...and I'm going to end my posting on that note.


Originally Posted by Ma
Let's see here:

Interstate Highway System - Eisenhower (R)
Normalized realtions with China - Nixon (R)
Fall of the USSSR - Reagan (R)

Welfare - Roosevelt (D)
Bay of Pigs - Kennedy (D)
Cuban Missle Crisis - Kennedy (D)
18% inflation - Carter (D)
BJ's in the oval office - Clinton (D)

Where is LBJ in the list? How about the 1964 Civil Rights Act. That wasn't an insignificant acheivement...was it?

I have to sit in idle thought at Nixon's acheivement that you posted regarding him "normalizing relations with China". Have you ever listened to any subtantial portions of the Nixon tapes? He would have cut his mother's throat to gain any advantage he deemed important to him personally or politically. He proved himself to be a living contradiction to our very idea of a Repubic form of government.

By the way...China, even in Nixon's days...wasn't stupid and foresaw economic opportunities in the U.S. While China persisted in maintaining its hardcore communist image...and controlled its people under such ideologies, the political structure was clever enough to know that they had to join in on the world economic bandwagon. Ask a lot of U.S. product distrutors who couldn't wait to get their hands on "equal quality, cheaper cost products produced by. China would have made the move...if Nixon hadn't.

Tim...do you really give Reagan credit for the "Fall of the USSR"? I've heard that hype for 25 years. Hell, I voted for the guy, not once but twice. But, I don't buy the USSR thing. I didn't when it happened.

The USSR was doomed to fail long before Reagan because of sheer economic reasons. Their failure was but an international incident waiting to happen. Their monetary and economic system crashed. It crashed not because of just the U.S., but because they isolated themselves from the world via their constant threats of global destruction and imperalistic proliferation of communism. The world wasn't going to tolerate another attempted global overthrow like Hitler intended to perpetrate. Reagan just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I'm sorry...Reagan's little, "Gorbachev, tear down those walls." speech...along with the Star Wars threat didn't bring down those walls.

BJ's in the Office..hmmmm, apparently those BJ's helped Clinton relieve enough stress so he could begin to formulate how to be the only president in modern history to balance the national budget. Was it just a false...politically contrived illusion of a sound balancing of the budget...perhaps. But it wasn't anywhere near as damaging as the phoney "happy days are hear again ecomomy" that emerged after Clinton's departure.

I voted for every Repubican President from my first year to vote...which was for Goldwater. But that stopped with George W. Bush. My relationship with any political party ended with GWB. And it remains to be that way today. I'm anti-political party. I'm anti-conservative/liberal philosophy. In my eyes...they only divide our nation for purposes of self-interest and gain.

And about GWB...Im a native Texan. When GWB entered the Gov's race, it was disturbing. But after living with his governorship and he upped the ante to run for president, I was more than disturbed. There was zero way I was going to support his potential idiocracy to be perpetrated on the entire nation, much less a single state. I'll never regret not voting for him. I did, however, spend my votes in 2000 and 2004 for Libertarian candidates, which I clearly knew had no chance of winning, but I felt that I had met my duty as a citizen to cast a vote.

You say Republicans defended GWB's honor up to the end. Is that a possible reason that both the House and Senate took major blows over the next election periods? I dare say his accomplishments...I don't want to remember.

I find it truly difficult to identify any "honor" displayed during GWB's terms.

But way more important to me, Tim. We can endlessly post negative BS about every politician on both sides of the isle, and still overlook the obvious...why in the hell are we able to consistently list negative after negative about either side...when these creeps are suppose to be on the side of We The People...and be actively involved in our general welfare in a way that is a product of joint efforts made possible by debate and compromise?

These jerks have pitted you and I and others against each other over their world of self-interests and gains!

Let's just have another civil war...and get all of this insane BS out of our systems. But in the end...I hope like hell we come out with the wisdom to publicly execute all of our Washington crooks who have swindled our country and killed our kids all for the sake of self-interest
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Last edited by AustinRanter; 10/08/09 06:35 PM. Reason: BECAUSE!

Turn on ANY brand of political machine - and it automatically goes to the "SPIN and LIE CYCLE" wink

Yours Truly - Gregg