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Joined: Dec 2005
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Pooh-Bah
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Originally Posted by Allen Owen
. Bush deserved impeachment for fibbing us into a war and Obama does the same if he continues to prosecute said war(s)

Are you implying that Bush lied us into afghanistan... and that Al Queda training camps were not there at all? This is big news that you should substantiate.


Or, perhaps this is only garden variety conflation for effect?

IMO there ar very clear distinctions between Iraq and afghanistan. And while one may disgree about the correct strategy in afghanastan.... as well there are important reasons concerning how we got there, and why Obama thinks the area remains important.

But, no doubt you can also provide a link that will convince us that an abrupt departure from afghanistan will surely keep the place clear of Al Queda. Hmm

Last edited by Ardy; 10/09/09 03:14 PM.

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...a "failure" with a Nobel Peace prize. cool


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Carpal Tunnel
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So what did President Obama give the world to deserve the nomination, and eventually the Nobel Peace Prize? I say it's the same thing he gave Americans that won the election for him, very simply: Hope.
His political adversaries were even given hope in some ways, they hope he will fail. They hope, by obstinacy and obduracy, they can drive this hope from the minds of the world and give them the renewed despair of more Republican leadership. They hope he can be forced to fail because they know his success will show the emptiness and depravity of previous leaders who catered only to the wealthy and forgot that this is government for and by the people, not just for and by the rich people. Both parties have failed this nation but President Obama has offered hope that reform might one day come. He has offered hope to the world that America will become a team player in the global economy it helped to create. He may be dragged down into ultimate failure by partisan politics but the hope he gave to the world was worth the Nobel Prize.


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Hope in one hand, s*** in the other. see which one fills up faster. It is of considerable interest to me how those who spent so much time hating Bush(well deserved, btw), now defend the same basic policy in the hands of the Dems. Here read this article. it's pure opinion by a retired naval officer.


"When fascism comes to this country it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross"-Sinclair Lewis
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As for denying Al-qaeda a safe haven, all they need for a safe haven is a pocket big enough for an iPhone or blackberry. If memory serves, 911 was planned in Hamburg Germany and training was conductede on the atlantic seaboard of florida at a flight school. Do we need to occupy Germany as well? Did anyone read the huffington post article or are you just pissed that someone thinks Obama is no better than Bush? Obama supporters are sounding more and more like Bush supporters every day. I think it is f***** awesome! And funny.


"When fascism comes to this country it will be draped in the flag and carrying a cross"-Sinclair Lewis
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Originally Posted by Greger
Both parties have failed this nation but President Obama has offered hope that reform might one day come. He has offered hope to the world that America will become a team player in the global economy it helped to create. He may be dragged down into ultimate failure by partisan politics but the hope he gave to the world was worth the Nobel Prize.

There are multiple reasons to dismiss this as a publicity stunt, but I just attribute it to the politics of international naivete.

Hope for the world that America will become a team player? That is not only not his job, it is against his oath of office. Now, if what he does helps the rest of the world then he is OK, but if his agenda is to help the rest of the world at the expence of America then he should be impeached. His job is to put America first, last and most important in his every action.

The hope that he can be forced to fail because they know his success will show the emptiness and depravity of previous leaders? Depravity? For depravity I give you Sudan and their genocide in Dafur. Mugabe and his violent abuse of Zymbabwe. North Korea and their continued abuse of an entire population. Iran and her violent aggression of protesters when their "election" was stolen. Obama, whose support of Zelaya over the Hondoran Constitution threatens to destabilized an entire region. If that is hope, I'll take despair.

In my life time there has been no bigger partisan President than Barack H Obama. He is exactly what he said he wasn't and goes about proving that every day. Being a partisan is not a bad thing, being a devisive partisan is, and Obama has chosen to pick his fights to maximise the amout of division created by them.

Look, Obama got the Nobel and overall that is a very good thing for America, but please do not portray it as anything other than a cynical slap at America's recent past. All in all, all I can say to the Nobel Committee is "That's nice".

Last edited by Ma_Republican; 10/09/09 05:17 PM.

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Originally Posted by Allen Owen
As for denying Al-qaeda a safe haven, all they need for a safe haven is a pocket big enough for an iPhone or blackberry. If memory serves, 911 was planned in Hamburg Germany and training was conductede on the atlantic seaboard of florida at a flight school. Do we need to occupy Germany as well? Did anyone read the huffington post article or are you just pissed that someone thinks Obama is no better than Bush? Obama supporters are sounding more and more like Bush supporters every day. I think it is f***** awesome! And funny.
Allen, I don't know about occupying Germany, but Florida might be a good idea. grin


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MA, why do you say he is the most partisan President? Seems so contrary to fact that I am curious what you see.


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Quote
So what did President Obama give the world to deserve the nomination, and eventually the Nobel Peace Prize? I say it's the same thing he gave Americans that won the election for him, very simply: Hope.
His political adversaries were even given hope in some ways, they hope he will fail. They hope, by obstinacy and obduracy, they can drive this hope from the minds of the world and give them the renewed despair of more Republican leadership. They hope he can be forced to fail because they know his success will show the emptiness and depravity of previous leaders who catered only to the wealthy and forgot that this is government for and by the people, not just for and by the rich people. Both parties have failed this nation but President Obama has offered hope that reform might one day come. He has offered hope to the world that America will become a team player in the global economy it helped to create. He may be dragged down into ultimate failure by partisan politics but the hope he gave to the world was worth the Nobel Prize.
(emphasis mine)

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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
Hope for the world that America will become a team player? That is not only not his job, it is against his oath of office. Now, if what he does helps the rest of the world then he is OK, but if his agenda is to help the rest of the world at the expence of America then he should be impeached. His job is to put America first, last and most important in his every action.

An interesting take on the "job" of the President. His oath of office was, as directed by the Constitution (Article II, Section 1), to:
Quote
faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.


Three very significant parts of his job, as defined in the Constitution (Article II, sections 2 and 3, are to:

[*]Serve as Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy,
[*]Make treaties,
[*]Receive ambassadors and other public ministers

Each suggests a role in the world, as either a cooperative or coercive team player.

But, the Constitution is just a damn piece of paper. We can ignore it when it doesn't comport with your view of the world we have defined for ourselves.


"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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