Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General The fallout: Democrats rethinking health care bill

I have mixed feelings about starting over. On one hand, I feel it's the right thing to do as no one is happy with the Bill as is.

On the other hand, I feel that we'll never get a chance to reform health care again.

I'm really flummoxed.

The only palatable decision is to pass the Senate bill, and if the House balks, Health care reform is a dead issue until at least 2012, and they may just lose the whole Congress in 2010. I know that right now it may seem that voting for it will be bad juju for 2010, but I think they are learning the wrong lesson.

Nothing that would come out of the Congress in 2010 will be reform. It would be so much worse than the sausage that Congress made out of it this year. Republicans will be in no mood to do anything, hoping to extend their brand in 2010 the way they always have - through lies and false advertising - funded by Big Bidness interests. They are going to be so overconfident and over-the-top in light of what they perceive as a "sea change" in their favor. Dems need to pin the stink on the GOP, putting forth good ideas and forcing the GOP to stand in the way over and over again (and they will), using their "41" votes to block everything.

Unfortunately, I think that the Dems are going to pull back and become timid. And lose. The signal will be coming from Obama's State of the Union. If he hits a home run with it, setting forth a pro-people agenda, keeping it fiscally responsible but focused on getting people to work, and explains why more money needs to be spent (and it does), he can lead the party out of the wilderness despite their best efforts. If they become timid over this and run to the right, f' 'em. We don't need two Republican parties. The one we have is stinky enough.

Thankfully, the Obama Administration has come to an end. Oh, he will sit in office for another three years, three years of continuing budget resolutions to keep the government paying employees and funding the wars, but there will be no new legislation on any front unless it is introduced by the Republican Party.

Senator Webb has already stated that there will be no chicanery: no votes on Health Care or anything else until Senator Brown is seated.

The Republican Party and the True Americans in the Democratic Party will not allow any Obama or Democratic sponsored legislation to pass through the Senate. The Democratic Party will never fight fire with fire and force Republicans to actually hold a filibuster, so 60 non-existent votes will be needed at every step to pass any piece of legislation since the Republicans are not going to allow the president to have any more victories.

Nothing will happen for the remainder of Obama's lame duck presidency. He can well pull a Buchanan and mail in the remainder of his term from Hawaii.

When health insurance prices sky-rocket this year allowing insurance companies the chance to finally get a return on their investment and more and more employers end health care benefits for their employees as it becomes more and more expensive and we move to the only rational way to distribute health care - health care goes to those who are willing to pay for it - the blame will rightly fall on the president.

When the newest Ponzi scheme explodes, since their will be no new controls on financial institutions (See: no new Democratic sponsored legislation) and the stock market again falls to its natural level as investors realize the government will no longer shore up the economy; when unemployment reaches 15 - 20% as states layoff teachers, firefighters and police officers, cut social services and infrastructure repair - since there will be no continuation of federal support for the states - there will be no unemployment benefits as the states are nearly tapped out already; when more an more homes go into foreclosure and more and more businesses shutter their shops because the bills can't be paid and there are no customers, the Obama Administration will rightfully be blamed and the American people will win. The Democrats will be thrown out of office and we can get back to sane politics: Tax cuts for the wealthy (the only people who create wealth) and increased expenditures on defense of the Homeland in all its forms.

We'll worry about China stopping the money supply and the petroleum market moving to the Euro when that happens - as if they'd dare cross a Republican president!

Unless the congress and senate critters suddenly have a revelation and modify the filibuster rules...but I am not holding my breath.
I think Irked is correct.

Oh yeah...HAITI?
That's going to be the new forward operating base for Al-Qaeda, seven hundred miles from our shores.
They'll be able to borrow some of those high speed "pleasure craft" from Somalia and drift right into New York Harbor with whatever weapon floats their boat.
Because as we already know, Republicans don't think helping Haiti is important!

YAAAAAYYY!

What a sad, sad thread.

Tip O'Neill said "all politics is local." Well, I'm renewing my efforts locally to boot out a blue dog U.S. Representative, although he's a very nice man, and support a real Democrat for the office.

I do not think Irk is correct and I do not think Al Quaeda is coming this way, CS. It is quite a bit more likely that our military will be heavily occupying Haiti for some time to come.

EmmaG

I think that you guys are missing the whole point of what happened yesterday. When the polling numbers come out you will find the breakdown of party affiliation amazing. It will probably read like this: Republican voters = 95%, Democratic voters = 25%, Independent voters = 85%. What Scott Brown won the race on was opposition to healthcare reform. He had other issues that made the rank and file come out, immigration, cap and trade, but the there were two underlying themes throughout his campaign. One was that the Democratic party isn't the same party it was when John Kennedy was elected and two, and most important, was his promise to be the 41st vote in the Senate.

Don't under estimate what this election says about the American voter's state of mind. They elected Obama as the anti-Bush and they think they have created a monster. I worked on Scott's campaign a little and while delivering yard signs I was struck by the absolute fear of what Obama was doing. People, Dem and Reps were afraid of his agenda. They are concerned about the money being spent and the programs being proposed. While talking politics with the people on Medicare they were terrified at what was being proposed by Obama and what Medicare would look like after it passed.

Coakley ran a bad campaign, but this loss is on Obama.

So, we can blame you (in part) for the fall out, Ma (since you worked on his campaign)?

Seriously, though, I think that your analysis is spot on to this extent: That's why Scott Brown thinks he won. You are also right that the GOP trades on fear, and Scott Brown rode that wave all the way through, without ever really discussing his own history. I also agree that Brown ran the superior campaign, as I have posted elsewhere, and Coakley's campaign was lackadaisical. She was complacent, thinking the blue of Massachusetts would see her through. Someone with Capuano's personality probably could have pulled it off for the Dems, because he works harder and ran a campaign that was closer to the one Brown ran - the contrast would not have been as stark.

I don't think, however, that this represents a new "wave" of anti-Obama anger. It was a local result with national implications, in an off-year, off-season election. There is going to be a lot of misreading of the tea leaves from this one. Your narrative is going to be one of the popular ones, I just personally don't think it is entirely accurate.

I wish you could place the blame on my shoulders, that would mean I would have gotten my dream job.

NW, you really are missing the point here. It has nothing to do with fear and everything to do with reality. People do not like the agenda, period. They are afraid of his spending, afraid of his attempt to take over health care but also ominous for both parties, they are sick of being taken for granted.

This is officially a trend, VA, NJ, MA. Americans like their Presidents to leave things alone unless there is a problem. I understand that many on the left believe that there is a real problem, but a large majority of America doesn't agree. They want the President to focus on the economy and jobs, not on a subject that most of America doesn't have to worry about. It failed under Clinton and it will fail for the same reason under Obama. Clinton reached too far and proposed a radical change in the way people get their health insurance. Obama tried to do the same thing only different, and it spawned Scott Brown. I think that 2010 will be a bad year for your party, I just hope that MY party understands what went wrong under Bush and doesn't make the same mistakes.

I had a discussion with Red Heat after the Bush election (Red I hope you are well), she told me exactly what the Dems were going to do. It is exactly what the Republicans are doing today. Another case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Hopefully diplomatic behavior will break out on Congress, if it doesn't we are all screwed.

NWP....
Is that copyrighted? Can I use it? Been looking for something better than "vested interests" or "moneyed elite".
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Re: Dems, Obama, and the sense of the public, I don't feel that there is a clear view yet, as to just what's going on.

I'd like to feel that it's a signal... a wake up call to government to stop running around in their own circles, and pay some attention to the source of discontent.

I don't think it's just jobs, or the economy, but more of a feeling that no one is listening.

So here's the question I've been asking myself:
"Have I sold the voice of the common people short? Are they more in touch with what is happening in government than what I thought? Is the concept of the American Idol/Nascar/Fox addicted public wrong?"

Secondly... another concern... If the people DO feel their inherent power, will they be wise enough to make the right choices? Not just vote choices, but the choices that are reflected in the polls that ultimately often influence the pols.?

We talk of populism... but is populist support what America needs? Is it a matter of the loudest, most charismatic voice that would direct the vote and the government policies?

I realize that this is "elitist talk", but we're obviously undergoing a change in sentiment. Will it take us in the right direction?

It's not a matter of what I want, but what will fly. We talk about third party, but if that is not practical, how can the public interest be served in the current system.

Back to the healthcare bill. At this point, I'd prefer a stop. It's a greedy self serving preference. Good for the country? I've read most of the bill and have mixed emotions over the cost/benefit relationship. I'll sit this one out for the time being.