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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
your choice of candidate
Yes your choice, his administration, shoved America over a cliff and then had the gall to say we have had an epiphany and have changed our ways ... give me a frigging break

The current administration has tried a weak economic stimulus based on the assumption the recession was not as deep as it apparently is/was. What economists know (gee not based on your gut feeling or your particular agenda driven politics but economic models based on mathematics) is that the policies used in the last administration will not help turn this economy around, so trying to promote out of date economic policies which historically don't work is not a solution i.e. the party which says they have solutions are actually not solutions but simply the party of "no." I am personally looking for people who may have solutions. I don't care if they are conservatives or liberals .... do they have solutions?

Now if you have information from an economist (I know it has to be a conservative from you) who has a reasonable solution which can be documented then please make him or her be known.


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Lord knows I have not been overly happy with much of what Obama has done. I also suspect that anybody who is president would receive the same. I do find it interesting that the healthcare thing is condemned before it even kicks in. I am not a real big fan of the financial reform but they made a run at it and did some things well. We should keep in mind that big money has, pretty much, bought the congress of the United States. The recent try, and failure, in passing a law simply stating that if an oil company messes things up then they are responsible for fixing it is a very good example of what big money can do. The fact that healthcare and financial reform was even vaguely passed, given the millions and millions spent on lobbying/buying the congress, is actually pretty impressive all on its own. Its equally obvious that if the Republicans were in charge NOTHING would have been done on these fronts.

I suspect, however, that the Obama administration is actually going to be judged what they have been doing in the background. They have made some really good appointments, they have been gathering data bigtime and actually have plans for it, they set an impossible date to get out of Afghanistan which can actually get us out of the hellhole (I think). All in all I suspect the Obama administration will be thought of in quite a positive light as time passes. I could, just as most can, list a litany of decisions and poor executions by this administration. On the other hand nobody should forget what he inherited. Folks tend to forget he took over during a period when we were losing, for instance, over 700,000 jobs a month! The same list, when applied to the previous administration, I think, would be considerably longer than what Obama will eventually leave.

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"...Obama: An inept, amateurish failure..."

For an inept, amateurish failure, Mr. Obama has three major legislative victories (actually 100%) and now two SCOTUS victories (...here too, 100%)

I wonder what a stellar, accomplished President's achievement record would look like?

Hmm


Contrarian, extraordinaire


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Originally Posted by rporter314
The current administration has tried a weak economic stimulus based on the assumption the recession was not as deep as it apparently is/was. What economists know (gee not based on your gut feeling or your particular agenda driven politics but economic models based on mathematics) is that the policies used in the last administration will not help turn this economy around, so trying to promote out of date economic policies which historically don't work is not a solution
How was almost a trillion dollar stimulus package "weak"? Why would this administration think that the recession was not as deep as it was when anyone with a functioning brain who was looking at the time at the escalating job losses, idled shipping and plants, collapsing retail sales knew that we were in a very bad and very deep recession? Is this administration made up of economic ignoramouses or were the economists unable to conjure up and inform the administration what their mathematical "models" projected for the future? What are the out-of-date policies unsuccessfully used in the past that did not work? Just curious.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos


"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
I am not somebody who makes excuses for my failures ...


You have failures? What happened to setting reasonable goals, working hard and everything coming up peaches and cream? That's not a fool-proof plan?


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Originally Posted by california rick
I wonder what a stellar, accomplished President's achievement record would look like?

Hmm


Ronald Reagan's. Go ask Ma. grin


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Hmmm...Ronald Reagan...wasn't he the one who...

Quote
Allegations surfaced that William Casey, director of the Reagan campaign, and some CIA operatives, secretly met with Iranian officials in Europe to arrange for the hostages' release, but not until after the election. If true, some observers aver, dealing with a hostile foreign government to achieve a domestic administration's defeat would have been grounds for charges of treason.

Reagan won the election, partly because of the failure of the Carter administration to bring the hostages home. Within minutes of Reagan's inauguration, the hostages were released. Under Reagan, the Iran-Contra Affair completes this story.

But then I guess it's only members of the other party who can rightly be deemed treasonous, Republicans after all have America's best interests at heart.


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Originally Posted by issodhos
How was almost a trillion dollar stimulus package "weak"?

Because it wasn't enough.

Excerpt from much longer article.

Quote
The most important question facing Obama that day was how large the stimulus should be. Since the election, as the economy continued to worsen, the consensus among economists kept rising. A hundred-billion-dollar stimulus had seemed prudent earlier in the year. Congress now appeared receptive to something on the order of five hundred billion. Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel laureate, was calling for a trillion. Romer had run simulations of the effects of stimulus packages of varying sizes: six hundred billion dollars, eight hundred billion dollars, and $1.2 trillion. The best estimate for the output gap was some two trillion dollars over 2009 and 2010. Because of the multiplier effect, filling that gap didn’t require two trillion dollars of government spending, but Romer’s analysis, deeply informed by her work on the Depression, suggested that the package should probably be more than $1.2 trillion. The memo to Obama, however, detailed only two packages: a five-hundred-and-fifty-billion-dollar stimulus and an eight-hundred-and-ninety-billion-dollar stimulus. Summers did not include Romer’s $1.2-trillion projection. The memo argued that the stimulus should not be used to fill the entire output gap; rather, it was “an insurance package against catastrophic failure.” At the meeting, according to one participant, “there was no serious discussion to going above a trillion dollars.”

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gee I dunno ... maybe you have ignored the American political process but here it is ... when partisanship reigns supreme make the weakest shittiest laws possible then allow those on the sidelines (such as yourself)to make all kinds of incredulous accusations as if they were legitimate criticisms.

Supply side economics: every analysis I have done on the raw data has not shown any of the advantages proclaimed by conservative politicians, in fact I believe just recently several Reagan economic advisers have stated a policy such as continuation of tax cuts will not be beneficial in the current state of the economy

Personally I believe the beast (the economy) has evolved and the economists have not caught up yet in their understanding of it

eco 101 .... really

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Originally Posted by rporter314
Personally I believe the beast (the economy) has evolved and the economists have not caught up yet in their understanding of it

I agree with all you said...
and would only add that the economy is constantly evolving. As such economists are inherently always playing catch up. They may have learned something from our current difficulties... but the next problem will look different... and it will also be obvious in retrospect


"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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