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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Feb 2008
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old hand
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old hand
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OMG! Are you creating a new sect within the birther movement???
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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old hand
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Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure. Thank you, Mr. President. This is, in fact, a First Amendment issue.
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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And we ascribe heinous motives to the choice of this location without taking into any consideration the role of the imam who is behind it in calming the situation on the ground at and around ground zero in the days after the disaster and worked extensively with the Bush administration to try to keep this kind of Islamaphobia from taking over the country.
...snip...
This thread is offensive on so many levels it is hard to square its presence with the otherwise reasoned thinking of so many of my friends here. As well as others. The thing I find contemptable and offensive is the portrayal of New Yorkers as being so evil or so savage that it somehow took a heroic imam to "calm" them. Weird stuff.  Yours in wonderment, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,831 Likes: 180 |
Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds. The Hereafter is for the pious, and there is no enmity save toward the unjust. I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship save Allah alone, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Slave and Messenger. May Allah bless him, his pure Household, his noble Companions, and all those who follow them in goodness up to the day of Judgement.
Last edited by Greger; 08/15/10 01:04 PM.
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...
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Joined: Feb 2008
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2008
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The thing I find contemptable and offensive is the portrayal of New Yorkers as being so evil or so savage that it somehow took a heroic imam to "calm" them. Weird stuff. Yours in wonderment, Issodhos Where, or where, did you get that, Iss. Certainly not in my post. What evil lurks inside your heart and mind?
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,426
member
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The President took what appears to me to be a position with no political payoff at all, but one of principle. This was my first impression as well, and I'm no partisan supporter of this President. A case could probably be made for my naivete, though.
The final war will be between Pavlov's dog and Schroedinger's cat. --Robert Anton Wilson
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Because of their track record of killing Americans, I can't support the construction of a Ground Zero McDonald's.
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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Joined: Oct 2006
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
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Let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure. Thank you, Mr. President. This is, in fact, a First Amendment issue. I would love to have seen the course a similar thread to this one had GWB made the same statement as did Obama. I'm far from a lover of Obama. I've been pretty vocal about that for sometime. But his statement is in the context exactly as Chuck's post above. I really don't know who can view this issue as being anything other than First Amendment issue despite what anyone chooses to believe what the underlying motives are. This is America. We are a nation of laws. We are a nation whose common values are built around the Bill of Rights. Either it protects all as written, or it doesn't. Obama has since added to his statement saying (paraphrasing) that he is sticking what he said, but also in light of the symbolism of that location, it isn't a very wise decision to construct the Mosque in that chosen location. I can agree with that. But, I also believe in the First Amendment. If the Mosque turns out to be a meeting place for terrorists who setup office to plan out the next attacks...and to store weapons of mass destruction...then we have a different ball game. But, even if the Mosque is a rub-in-the-face statement of contempt for Americans and want the Mosque's presence to be a reminder of such contempt, then its up to the individual as to whether or not to give power and satisfaction to those who are voicing their contempt via the construction of Mosque. Just my 2 cents...thanks
Turn on ANY brand of political machine - and it automatically goes to the "SPIN and LIE CYCLE" 
Yours Truly - Gregg
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Joined: Aug 2008
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veteran
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Because of their track record of killing Americans, I can't support the construction of a Ground Zero McDonald's. On the other hand, consider the track record of all the religions, and their persistent proclivity for murdering and torturing people. How many people would commit murder for a McDonald's? (hmmm...I shudder to think!)
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Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
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This is America. We are a nation of laws. We are a nation whose common values are built around the Bill of Rights. Either it protects all as written, or it doesn't. Oh really? So when I wrote, "In this case the property is privately owned and, to my knowledge, there are no restrictions against building regious buildings on it, so that should settle the matter. All the rest is politics.", was I not saying that the issue does not need to be hyped as a First Amendment issue? Is not the issue laid to rest constitutionally based purely on property rights? Is there any argument in favor of prohibiting this 'Islamban' structure from being built? Is it not stupid to try to muddy the right to build on this privately owned site by dragging religion into it? Of course it is. Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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