Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Anti-Religious Ads Spark Anger

Rick:

I have always wondered though how much genetics plays in having predilections towards religious beliefs. Surely culture plays a huge part in following a particular religion as it is very difficult--especially for young people--to question what is going on in their immediate surroundings. And the fear of familial and cultural shunning are powerful forces indeed.

But I remember distinctly as a youngster--10 or so-- when I was taken to church by my family, thinking “does that guy (priest or lay reader) really believe what he is saying?". I even then thought most of it--many of the Biblical stories--to be preposterous fairy tales. Am I alone in this? I surly am not trying to claim that I had any preternatural insights as to recognizing religious dogma as nonsense from an early age. But to me most of it seemed ludicrous even way back then. Any other ranters out there had a similar experience?

By the way most of my extended biological family is non religious that’s why I bring up the possible genetic connection.

Sometimes questionnaires ask “Is it possible to be moral without religious beliefs?” My answer to that is absolutely yes. I think it is both biologically and culturally instilled. Although I have been known on occasion to sin too. Sainthood seems to be a long ways down the road.

Public Schools do have a lot to make up for. I made no such claim, Phil. I wrote, "...attempt to construct a group-based victim heirarchy continues unabated." Note that the construct was in reference to an heirarchy of groups -- not that those referenced created their own oppression. For those who have been asleep for the last few decades, most every group that has claimed victimhood has tried to compare itself to 'black' Americans and the Civil Rights movement. When we get to the point where even an atheist group is making that claim, we have reached the point of complete silliness.
Yours,
Issodhos

i was actually a good religious boy until the age of 17. I attended a Christian elementary school and was involved in my teen-aged youth group.

One Sunday morning during my senior year, after hearing about how "bad" gay people were, and a religious tract appeared called the "Gay Blade" about how sinful being gay was, this elder stood up and began to "witness" and I thought to myself: I don't want to be like these people.

I've never looked back.

What I reject is the "victimhood" language of your post. I can speak from persona experience that my personal life as a gay man is not something I chose, nor did I choose that most people think of me as a member of a group or category.

It is not being a victim to ask for fair and equal treatment as an individual, and it is not victimhood to ask for that treatment with others similarly categorized. That is just smart politics.

Again, its the whole moccasin thing.

Not that unusual a moment -- whether one is straight or gay,rick.:-)
Yours,
Issohos

Yeah, probably about the same odds as you choosing to attack the right wing of the political spectrum with the same nasty sense of "humor" that you deploy against the left.

And thanks for illustrating the sense of "humor" comment so capably. Couldn't have done it better myself. Not sure which aspect of it is more offensive: that those who observe Ramadan are appropriately identified with the violent acts you suggest but those who observe Christmas are not (see Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials); or the humor you see in such violent behavior. Oh, I guess there's a third possibility: you find your own wit so brilliant that you laugh at yourself. (You have company.)



Yes, it is true that there are more who profess a belief in one of the many god's in the world's religions than who do not, but there are more who don't believe in the christian god than there are who do. A bit over 2 to 1! So use of the word "sacred" in a non-christian connotation puts one in the majority, not a minority status. It's the christians who are the fringe movement and should be wary of applying their own connotations to things.


I spent the first 18 years of my life being indoctrinated by the various denominations of the christian religious machine but there was no mention of dieties in any of my lessons. Yes, tis true my catholic friends were told not to eat meat on Fridays and my jewish friends were told not to eat pork ever. Is that what you mean? Or was there something more significant in your coinage of this word?
Why? And what is it that would constitute the violation of your commandment? Simply using a word that you feel should carry an alternative connotation? Can you spell arrogance?

Well, yes, of course. It is only natural for those who share a history of having been physically, economically, and otherwise attacked and bullyed by those who claim to speak for god and jesus to band together and challenge those who are doing that attacking and bullying. If the christians don't want the several groups they attack to band together, perhaps they could simply stop violating the teachings of jesus and quit casting stones.


No, what continues unabated is the heresy commited by those who claim to be the true believers to violate the teachings of the man they claim to follow and the hierarchy THEY have created in the moving window of "which sin is most heinous" they use to single out the next greatest abomination against their perverted faith.

And you are well aware that is exactly what atheists are doing. Being atheists. Atheists with every right (as you note) to rent a billboard and place on it any message they wish. So why, then, castigate them for doing what you have directed that they should do? Is it because they dared to use a word in ways you didn't like? Are you running for god or something? What exactly is your familial relationship with Joe Miller?



Yours in fervent disbelief.

I think I understand iss now -- he is just peeved that he isn't in an oppressed minority. How could I have missed it for so long?

Are you sure that's correct?

I am mostly distressed by the hypocrisy of so many Christian believers and how quickly they give up using reason to solve many of their problems. I am not a victim of their hatred and gave that lack of rational thinking up after Pearl Harbor. I soon became aware that many Americans were hateful and hypocrites in how they looked at other humans. I do have a sacred respect for all living things. I use the word "sacred" being so strong in my mind to be actually awesome.

I am a great lover of "sacred" music and would hide for hours each day surrounded by Bach. When any music can bring tears of sadness and joy to me, I cannot even begin to understand the emotions. I have never envisioned any personification of any God during my spells of sacred emotion. It has made me a hermit filled with all kinds of music for instruments and voice. My mother's musical background filled me with life on another universe.

I remember when Karl Sagan put together his gold disk to share earthly senses with other forms of life from outer space. His choice of Bach and Beethoven was a perfect example of sound from our human species. Music, art, literature, drama of poetry and the theater as all the proof we need that we can master near perfection without a superstitious ghost. I will never be terrorized by any earthy display of fear of any God. My only fear is that I will lose my hearing and/or my eyesight.

I was told several months ago that my neighbors have prayer meetings asking God to destroy California to stop the sinning. I am getting very old and feel so dejected by those of my age group. I will head home to California in search of the kind of humans I need for companionship.

We are all heading back to the golden state for the shear beauty of the place. I have the best of my music on DVDs and CDs with all the time in the world left to enjoy it over and over. Since I gave up the terrorism within the fear of God, I have not had an unhappy minute. I might be the pain killers but what the hell.

Sandy

I don't know why the Religious Right has to be in such an uproar. They should do what I do. If there is an ad of any sort that I don't care for, I just ignore it. It works well for me when I watch TV, see bill board signs or for print ads. And the same with pop-up adds on my computer. The delete button is a wonderful thing. And when people try to give me religious tracts, or try to proselytize me, I can always walk away, hang up the phone or shut my door.