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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
Originally Posted by churlpat lives
"The experiment was flawed from the beginning. . .."

What experiment? Who has been experimenting with the global climate? How? When?

Show us. Stop the goddamned preaching and show us the facts.

What experiment?

Any scientific thesis starts with an assumption and proceeds to the experimentation stage. During experimentation the thesis is tested at its limits to see if further testing is necessary. That testing phase, also called experimentation, is what decides whether the thesis is correct or flawed. If the thesis is flawed then it must be refined or discarded. In this case the thesis was at least flawed, but the data was manipulated to prove the thesis.

That is a simple explanation of the scientific process. It is a standard that is taught in every vocational high school, technical institute and engineering college in America. Everything is an experiment, without experimentation validity cannot exist.

I know what the scientific method is. But that was not what I asked. I asked specifically what experimentation had been done and you ignored the question. What experiments have been done? By whom? You are the one who said "The experiment was flawed from the beginning. . .."

Going on about what the scientific method is does not answer the specific question:

WHAT EXPERIMENTS?



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Greger #170296 12/14/10 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Greger
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It's all a scientific fraud. The ice is really still there.
Wrongo, Mate. The Ice has actually gone south for the winter.
After enduring centuries of frigid Canadian winters the Ice has simply moved to warmer climes. Some of it has been seen as far south as Florida.

Disguised as a frozen margarita at Jimmy's Bar, one hopes.


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Originally Posted by issodhos
Originally Posted by Schlack
Originally Posted by issodhos
Well, there is "science" and then there are the faithful in science. Wherever there are the faithful, there will be hucksters who prey upon that faith. And where there are hucksters there will be opportunity by manipulators to put them to use for political purposes. So, we must endure the prattle of those followers who claim, "the science shows ..." whenever it is politically useful to their cause, or has been massaged into being politically useful. At some point the thinking person recognizes when they are being BS'd and begins to question the source and the filtering done prior to release for public consumption.
Yours,
Issodhos

Is this just rhetoric or do you have any proof to back this up? ......


Specifically in relation to Nasas measurements of this year being the hottest on record (despite it being in a period of la nina and solar minimum?.
Let's just say it is from observation, Schlack. Hopefully that is not considered blasphemy among the Initiates of All Things 'Science'.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos

nice of you to drop of the end of my questions.

so, a longwinded way of saying no. Just rhetoric then. Thanks for clarifying that.

Unless by oservation you mean you have your own global temperature monitoring system. If so please do share with us the fruits of your research.




"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)

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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
So, after reading all of those observations, should I never drive a car because I might get into an accident?
I you did so, it might be interpreted as rationality, since driving a car is probably the most dangerous thing that you do.

Or that most people do, in fact.

If Americans were rational and actually concerned about health, the first thing they would do is transform the entire transportation system of the country so that they would not need to use private cars.

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Originally Posted by churlpat lives
Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
Originally Posted by churlpat lives
"The experiment was flawed from the beginning. . .."

What experiment? Who has been experimenting with the global climate? How? When?

Show us. Stop the goddamned preaching and show us the facts.

What experiment?

Any scientific thesis starts with an assumption and proceeds to the experimentation stage. During experimentation the thesis is tested at its limits to see if further testing is necessary. That testing phase, also called experimentation, is what decides whether the thesis is correct or flawed. If the thesis is flawed then it must be refined or discarded. In this case the thesis was at least flawed, but the data was manipulated to prove the thesis.

That is a simple explanation of the scientific process. It is a standard that is taught in every vocational high school, technical institute and engineering college in America. Everything is an experiment, without experimentation validity cannot exist.

I know what the scientific method is. But that was not what I asked. I asked specifically what experimentation had been done and you ignored the question. What experiments have been done? By whom? You are the one who said "The experiment was flawed from the beginning. . .."

Going on about what the scientific method is does not answer the specific question:

WHAT EXPERIMENTS?
1re·search noun \ri-ˈsərch, ˈrē-ˌ\
Definition of RESEARCH
1: careful or diligent search
2: studious inquiry or examination; especially : investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws
3: the collecting of information about a particular subject


Research leads to experimentation or becomes experimentation. In this case, the research was half assed and the experiment done poorly.


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Originally Posted by california rick
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Canada says it has full rights over those parts of the Northwest Passage that pass through its territory and that it can bar transit there.
Passage through our territory? That'll be two 'Loonies', eh?
Argh! Eh, Matey! That'll be one Doubloonie---or we'll hang thee from the yardarm!

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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
So, after reading all of those observations, should I never drive a care because I might get into an accident? Never ski because a Kennedy once died while playing football on skis and didn't see the tree he ran into? Never eat raw fish, never breath unfiltered air, never go into a big city because the crime rate in the cities are much higher than in the country?

As I have said many times, I agree with the ulterior motives of this new enviro-religion. Who doesn't want clean water and clean air? My problem is the path that was taken to impose it upon the entire industrialized world.

When perfroming an experiment the data collected dictate the results of the experiment. If the test equipment used in the experiment is made to indicate false results, the experiment itself is a useless exercise in curiosity, its results as useless as the exercise. Once the "scientists" decided to exclude data points that did not fit their desired results, once they decided to modify thier software to produce only desired results, once they decided to job the peer review process by using only sympathetic reviewers and hiding their data, it stopped being an experiment and became an exercise in curiosity.
You keep repeating the same points but those points have never been true and repeatedly shown to be false. So apparently you know what you say is untrue, what is the point of dealing with a person who repeats that what isn't true?


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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
...Once the "scientists" decided to exclude data points that did not fit their desired results, once they decided to modify thier software to produce only desired results, once they decided to job the peer review process by using only sympathetic reviewers and hiding their data, it stopped being an experiment and became an exercise in curiosity.

Scientists who manipulate data should be ostracized, then fired. Having stated this, Science Progress.org writes:

Quote
Unfortunately for climate skeptics, the CRU hacking incident fails to support the burden that they have placed upon it. Whatever behavior was revealed in these emails, even its most salacious interpretation can scarcely undermine the global edifice of knowledge about the causes of ongoing climate change—which may be bolstered by, but certainly does not rely solely upon, CRU’s research and analyses. Mainline scientists fully recognize this; thus, following the CRU hacking, the American Meteorological Society reaffirmed its longstanding statement on the human causation of climate change...

The [u]American Meteorological Society reaffirms[/u] the following:

Quote
Climate is changing in many ways. Global mean temperatures have been rising steadily over the last 40 years, with the six warmest years since 1860 occurring in the last decade. Regionally, the warming trend is greatest in northern latitudes, over land, and at night. Decreases in Arctic sea ice have been observed. Most studies indicate that ice loss has recently accelerated at the margins of Greenland and the West Antarctic ice sheet, whereas the East Antarctic ice sheet and the Greenland interior appear to be gaining mass. In the U.S. most of the observed warming has occurred in the West and in Alaska. However, there are regional variations in the signature of climate change, with warming in the western U.S. but little or no annual temperature change in the southeast U.S. in recent decades. Temperature rises have significant hydrologic effects. Freezing levels are rising in elevation, rain occurs instead of snow at mid-elevations, spring maximum snowpack is decreasing, snowmelt occurs earlier, and the spring runoff that supplies over two-thirds of the western U.S. streamflow is reduced.

Evidence for warming is also observed in seasonal changes with earlier springs, longer frost-free periods and longer growing seasons, and shifts in natural habitats and in migratory patterns of birds.



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Originally Posted by Phil Hoskins
...what is the point of dealing with a person who repeats that what isn't true?
There is no point, especially when said person fails to provide evidence in fact. coffee


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Originally Posted by Ma_Republican
the experiment done poorly
what research in climatology lead to what experiment ... you keep saying experiment what do you think they did put a lens high in the sky to heat the earth up to get higher temperatures?

what experiment did any climatologist conduct? don;t just say experiment but be precise i.e. they put thermometers only in the Sahara and then used the data as if from the north pole ... that would be an experiment to gather data and then fraudulently using it

here's the experiment which was done poorly = humans began burning fossils fuels indiscriminately and without responsibility of possible consequences

let me repeat once again the reality of your position .... it's all about money and nothing to do with science

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