Capitol Hill Blue Forums Hot Topics & Breaking News News What Can We Do To Change Political Discourse?

The issue of whether Loungner is a extreme leftist or extreme right wing has been flogged to death. The answer is no one knows.

The issue of whether Gov. Palin's campaign rhetoric was the impetus that Loungner needed to carry out his deadly plan is again at this point unknown and likely will never be known.

I am tired of both arguments, they are taking us nowhere. So, I ask what ideas would you share to change the tenor and tone of political campaigns and debates? Or would you? Some have suggested that nothing is wrong with things the way they are.

What would you change and how would you change it?

First, try and convince everybody that scaring the s*** out of people is, simply, counter productive. Second, convince the media to stop giving time (print or any other media) to idiots. Third, convince everybody to stop listening to the rabble rousers (Limbaugh, Beck, etc) If one could get even one of these things done it would tend to moderate. If all three got done many problems would simply go away and the tone would be seriously moderated.

Well I have to hand it to Doug Thompson. I've called Doug a smartass and an [censored] and a wiseass, but I've never called him wise. A long time ago Doug insisted that we refer to elected officials and former elected officials using their titles. That's been difficult for me at times, hence some of the fireworks on RR in the past. But I have to say that Doug was right. Doug is right. It starts with the respect of office. That respect must be constant even when we detest the person with the title of a particular office. I'll take that further and say that we should practice it at all times. We might just influence someone in a positive way.

I have long wished there were a non-partisan TV program called "The Facts" or something like that that would air weekly highlighting speeches made by national politicians analyze what was said and grade it for factuality while providing the facts. Maybe there is a TV show like that. I don't watch much TV. Maybe no one would watch such a program, I don't know.

I do know that I'd like an unbiased news source. The Christian Science Monitor is as close as you'll find, but you can't get it daily. I like the Guardian UK and Al Jazeera seems fairly unbiased. But most people aren't going to search for unbiased sources.

I was not clear in my first post in this topic. I do firmly believe that its not so much the hate stuff as the fear stuff that drives this kind of behavior, and a LOT more. For instance, there have been a LOT of interviews in Arizona. Has anybody but me noticed that most are with 'senior' citizens? When there are videos of Tea party get togethers, there are a LOT of 'seniors' there too.

Now, consider, the right is currently chanting "Job Killing Obamacare". The inference is that Obamacare is going to take everybody's job away. Its important, I think, that folks understand that everybody can say; "I certainly didn't mean that", the fact, however, is that inference is very real. Then there are the claims that Social Security is broke (wrong!) and Medicare is bankrupting gov (wrong!). The inference, again, is that Social Security AND Medicare is going away and its all the fault of the dems. Now here is where it gets strange. The dems tend to ignore this kind of rhetoric which, in turn, leaves the thought that since they do not want to respond the charges must be right. These kinds of themes have been unrelenting. I don't think anybody sees this stuff as 'hate' speech. On the other hand, however, consider the seniors; their children are all going to lose their jobs, they are going to lose their Social Security and Medicare and its all the fault of the dems. Now consider that Arizona has few gun laws, people vote and attend political rallies 'carrying' to show, er, well, you know. (Nevermind that its actually the right who wants that stuff gone).

Now we are told that the parents of the shooter have forted up, will not allow anybody in the house, and are probably armed. Er, well, why not? Gov is going to take away your living and your medical and there will be no jobs (life, as we have known it is going to end due to a bunch of socialists and commies). Given this kind of NATIONAL intellectual climate how can anybody who believes this ongoing, and unremitting, cacaphony of misery not push folks over the edge? I know, the shooter was young. This, however, doesn't change my 'inference'.

Please note, I have not really even vaguely listed the claims and charges. I know, the left did much the same thing during the Bush II tenure but, now, and we are talking about right now, the Righteous Right is making most of this noise. Its easy to blame the Righteous Right. The fact, however, that the silence of the Left to actually stand up is, I think, at least as responsible for the climate as the Righteous Right. I think the media also shares responsibility. They claim that one of their main jobs is to educate. Why in the HELL can't they stand up and point out that its unlikely that Social Security and Medicare is going to be shut down. Why can't they point out that violent crime has actually been declining for years. When a politician comes up with saying silly things why can't they say just that, and then document it? I know, there are sites for truth, but its more than a job for individual sites. Its time that the media steps up and clears the air of crap just as constantly as they run crap stories and the bulls**t.

One last - debate. Years ago Washington had a governor called Dan Evans. After he left the governorship he ran, and won, a seat as a senator in congress. After 1 term he quit. When asked why he said that he had been under the impression that the senate was the greatest debating body in the world. What he found out was that there was NO debate. Nothing has changed. When the dems were in charge, the Republicans pointed out that there was no debate. Now the Republicans are in charge and the dems say there is no debate. Hell, the dems won't even bother to answer Republican claims and, even if they do, media probably won't report it. So, there is no debate in congress, there is no public debate, both sides are calcified and what is left is a bunch of name calling <sigh>.

We should also remember that the congress of the United States is held in the lowest esteem of ANY profession in the nation. They managed this irrespective of party or belief. My own thought is that, possible, folks are simply tired of being scared to death by those who would claim leadership. Just a thought..............

My point, I guess, is that EVERYBODY needs to stand up. Blaming everything on the Right leaves out the other players, the Left, the media, etc. This is, of course, yet another example of my splendid ability at wishful thinking, and self delusion. (I am too old to wait for somebody else to toot a horn for me so ......)

Well said jgw, I agree. There must be some agreement at the top to tone it down. As individuals we must work to tone it down. We can insist on being given facts, we can ask for validation, but there is no sense in violent hate speech from conservatives, liberals, centrists or libertarians. I for one am damned sick and tired of it. I imagine everyone else is.

I am proud to say that I didn't not see ONE political TV ad the entire election season. I enjoyed not being a part of the shìt slinging.

I was involved with a very Republican forum that went viral after Rush Limbaugh began to be listened to and soon this Right Minds became so far to the right that it designed an agenda that picked up every threat offered by many on the religious right. It reflected the same illusion that the Conservatives were Christians fighting for the soul of America.

I spent many months trying to convince them that the GOP should not be based on the prohibitions that President Bush 43 failed to have passed. The enemy is no longer the obvious terrorists in America but RINOS like me. Individual freedoms are not what Jesus had in mind.

I suggested they stop the anger and hatred for anyone who felt humans are not driven by sins. When we got closer to the elections I asked them all to search out the best agenda to be found in the GOP and work for them. What came back was familiar as I remember the Hitler desire for his own race to be number one.

This morning they claim that Liberals are using the terrorism found in Tucson to bring down Governor Palin. She is their choice for a perfect presidential candidate.

This is but one angry forum who are all confirmed to be armed and pissed. They feel pro-American in their anger and ignorance. I have known the owner for many years and have tried to explain that the attitude on the forum is losing Republican voters. Apparently that is the purpose. They want a Christian Political Party and homosexuals thrown out.

I come from a family of Missionaries and was raised on this attitude until I could not take another day of it. I was horrified to find the same agenda on hundreds of internet sites. Between this attitude on line and the radio/television social preachers, how can we stop these senseless murders?

I don't want the government involved to censor these fools and I am useless in trying to stop their homegrown terrorism. When this leaks into our schools through armed students, it should be a focus of the parents.

Mick, you and I both know that this anger at the government is like a cancer among people who are ignorant and emotional.

I am very glad that the majority of the voters brought in Senator Obama over Senator McCain based on his choice for V.P. There is a madness for government controls over people that comes from Americans like Governor Palin who has yet to use good judgment in her statements. I did not vote for either candidate as I sensed an attitude of racism in these Social Conservatives. I also saw a threat of redistribution of wealth within the Democrats that to me is un-American. There is not a hint of individual freedoms being discussed sincerely in either party.

One last, can't resist. I suspect that not only the congress is held in low esteem but, also, our entire government. Please consider. Our so called leaders are neither trusted not approved of. The government, which they are supposed to be in charge of, is perceived to be sold to the highest bidder on a regular basis. Nobody trusts gov, or the leaders. This has consequences. The most immediate is that this pervasive attitude is pervasive and those unfortunates with mental disease tend to SERIOUSLY take it to heart (we just saw one instance of that). On the other hand we have otherwise normal parents refusing to have their children immunized as they simply do not believe that their distrusted government is capable of speaking the truth. People are running around with guns because they are scared to death by their leaders and the media. I suspect they are also sick and tired of being continually, according to those leaders, on the edge of complete disaster.

Its just not the rhetoric that has to be toned down, gov MUST start actually fixing stuff, not letting everything (perceptually) rot away while gov plays war whilst also spending billions of dollars to make other countries 'safe'. They simply have to stop it. I suspect that much of it is due to populism which, incidentally, was one of the main problems that cause problems, insofar as the founders were concerned. Its time that congress went back to a 5 day week instead of a 2 to 3 day week. Its time that those that would lead start to stand up and do what they claim they can, instead of checking with the voters every 15 minutes. Its time that they do their jobs instead of constantly running for re-election (with their hands out).

I, for one, would REALLY appreciate it if they all stopped telling me about what the 'people' want. I would much prefer that they either actually debate with the other side, or keep their damned mouths shut. I would also hope that the public simply start turning off the hate mongers, super partisans, blowhards, and self promoting idiots. I know, its not going to happen, unfortunately I suspect that we have established our dependence on unadulterated crap. So, we are going to have a week of grief and self recriminations. Then we can put that behind us and get back to the cacophony of fear mongering, hate, lies, and all the rest of the stuff that we seem to REALLY love!

Mick--it's a proven fact that most people want to mainly listen to positions that already support their preconceived notions of how things should be and filter out the rest as irrelvent garbage. Why do you think political talking heads are so popular--on both sides?

Talking is easy--listing is hard (thinking is the hardest) and mostly tuned out and dismissed anyway if it is contrary "drivel". I'm right--you're wrong-- [censored]. End of story. Even now "the majority" think uncivil discourse has nothing to do--with anything. You maybe can figure it out Mick, meanwhile I'm outta here for awhile too.


Aloha

You are of course right, Ken. I wish it weren't that way but it is. People often don't want to know the truth, they'd rather be wrong. Go figure.

The current thinking is that a 22-year old would not be influenced by Fox News, Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin as those three average demographic age, independent of each other, is 67.

The rational now says that Jared Loughner got his information from the Internet - the place where people say all sorts of crazy batpoop and don't have to back any of it up.

There is also thinking that many of Jared's screeds mimic Souverign Citizen - a 21st century counter-culture - and the tipoff is Jared's screeds about "grammar."

Writes MNBC of Sovereign Citizen: