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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
We have a system in place that will keep up a facade even when a president is incapacitated, dismissing anyone protesting as partisan.

The best documentary film on this subject is
Quote
Dave
, with Kevin Kline as the president.


"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Originally Posted by issodhos
suggestions that he was incapacitated by an illness for which there is no evidence of him having had during his presidency.
Yours,
Issodhos

It depends upon what you consider to be evidence.... is there a specific lab test or Doctor's report... no

However his son says that he noticed evidence..... and Have no reason to believe that he would lie about that

And there are numerous incidents in the public record where Reagan's grasp of reality seemed tenuous... IE when he reported one of his movie roles as a historical fact, and when he testified regarding the Iran Contra affair.... saying he had no recollection of approving a major initiative that he had in fact apparently approved.... it is not like forgetting where you left your keys.

My dad had Alzheimers long ago...so am am at least somewhat familiar with how it can work. This was back when very little was known about the disease. Before the disease was diagnosed, I can remember having conversations with him where he smiled and nodded... and avoided a substantive response. People in the initial stages of the disease have good mechanisms to get along, and to avoid confronting the unpleasant reality of their compromised faculties. I can tell you that for most people outside the family, they saw no problem with the genial gentleman that had always known and loved. And frankly, most people did not WANT to see a problem... it just makes social interaction much more awkward. When my dad's mind obviously had slipped... his old friends mostly did not want to be around him... it was embarrassing for them.

Last edited by Ardy; 01/16/11 11:12 PM.

"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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'
Originally Posted by Ardy
And there are numerous incidents in the public record where Reagan's grasp of reality seemed tenuous...
That's putting it mildly, Ardy!

It almost rises to the level of English understatement.

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Originally Posted by issodhos
...I know of no "great harm" that he did and actually was happy to see him avoid being drawn into Lebanon after the Marine barracks was blown up...
Some would disagree with you that not uttering the word "AIDS" for seven years was indeed "harmful," but I digress.

However, look at "the harm" that did take place on during Mr. Reagan's Presidency. I do not believe he was aware of what those around him were doing:
  • Iran-Contra
  • Mena, Arkansas
  • Barry Seals
  • Midnight Tours of the White House by male prostitutes
Would a President totally involved in his Administration, with the moral fortitude that some claim that Mr. Reagan had, allow such shenanigans to go on in his Administration?

I'm suggesting that those very, very close to Mr. Reagan (wink, wink, nod, nod) fully took advantage of Mr. Reagan's capacity, or lack thereof, to perform his duties. This allowed "them" to run their CIA black-ops agenda.


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Originally Posted by Ardy
Originally Posted by issodhos
suggestions that he was incapacitated by an illness for which there is no evidence of him having had during his presidency.
Yours,
Issodhos

It depends upon what you consider to be evidence.... is there a specific lab test or Doctor's report... no

However his son says that he noticed evidence..... and Have no reason to believe that he would lie about that
Well, if I recall correctly, his relationship with his father was described as "estranged" so I am not sure if he was around his father all that much. Those who were, including his 4 different physicians, were. But, this is probably where I will leave it.
Yours,
Issodhos


"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Originally Posted by issodhos
Those who were, including his 4 different physicians, were. But, this is probably where I will leave it.
Yours,
Issodhos

As previously noted, none of the four physicians was known to be a specialist in the field in question. I doubt their testimony would be considered authoritative in a court of law. And as such, I decline to consider their opinions such


"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
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Originally Posted by Ardy
Originally Posted by issodhos
Those who were, including his 4 different physicians, were. But, this is probably where I will leave it.
Yours,
Issodhos

As previously noted, none of the four physicians was known to be a specialist in the field in question. I doubt their testimony would be considered authoritative in a court of law. And as such, I decline to consider their opinions such
Nor is his estranged son.
Yours,
Issodhos


"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Originally Posted by issodhos
Originally Posted by Ardy
Originally Posted by issodhos
Those who were, including his 4 different physicians, were. But, this is probably where I will leave it.
Yours,
Issodhos

As previously noted, none of the four physicians was known to be a specialist in the field in question. I doubt their testimony would be considered authoritative in a court of law. And as such, I decline to consider their opinions such
Nor is his estranged son.
Yours,
Issodhos

Which leaves us with the undisputed fact that Pres Reagan was unable to remember authorizing actions leading to the Iran Contra affair... and disputed that he would have done so.... until written evidence was presented that he had done this... in which case he said that he must have done that, even though he had no memory of having done so.

The evidence is that either Reagan was lying, or he had some rather severe problem remembering important matters of state.

And, assuming that Reagan was not lying in this case... it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that what ever memory problem the Reagan had... we have no reason to believe the effects of that problem were limited to this specific circumstance.

Last edited by Ardy; 01/17/11 02:58 AM.

"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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Knowing who Mr. Reagan's assistant executive officer was, it would not surprise me that a piece of paper was slipped in-between others and Mr. Reagan signed said authorization without his knowledge.

I'm just sayin'... coffee


Keep in mind, that when Mr. Reagan was shot due to an assassination attempt - the Presidential limousine on its way to the hospital, the Secret Service completely familiar with the streets of Washington DC got "lost" for quite some time. The ambulance carrying James Brady, arriving to the assassination scene 5 mins after the Presidential limousine left with a wounded Ronald Reagan inside, arrived at the hospital before the Presidential limousine. When Mr. Reagan found this information out, his relationship with his co-executive was never the same.


...and least we forget that GHW Bush and John Henkley Sr, the father of "crazed for Jody Foster" John Henkley Jr, were friends. coffee

The two families lived close to each other. They knew each other socially and financially. When the Hinkley oil company started to fail in the sixties, Bush's Zapata Oil financially bailed out Hinkley's company. It went from being Vanderbilt Oil to Vanderbilt Energy or Vanderbilt Resources in the 60s after Bush intervened.


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Here is some Reagen testimony video concerning Iran Contra details. For me, it is fairly clear that the person (Reagan) that is testifying is a not particularly sharp elderly person.
Reagan looks a little dazed. I would not hire that person for a position of significant executive responsibility. But that is just my opinion.



"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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