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So what's wrong with legumes? Long as they're seasoned with a little factory farmed fatback or hog jowls. Preferably irradiated to kill any pathogens.



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Originally Posted by Mechanic
Name one nation successfully exclusively using wind/solar/wave, etc generation C.S.

Electric utilities started out as local generators. (It wasn't possible to "ship" electricity over any distance efficiently until a Russian emmigre' showed us how to convert from current to potential.) IAC the existing grid system is our point of greatest vulnerability; to natural and man-caused disasters. (How soon everyone forgets those "great blackouts of the past) ! These "green" pogroms - by reason of their variability - increase that vulnerability. >Mech

Is this what you mean by "green pograms"?
http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/25/technology/solar-new-york/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=hp_bn3
Hmm


You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
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Originally Posted by Mechanic
Anyone here ever look at the respiratory morbidity stats for urban areas circa the mid-19th century to date ? Air pollution casued by tens of thousands of coal fires dumped tons of ash/soot into the lungs of everyone. Victorian England was noted for its "pea soup" fogs - which continued into the war years. Coal fires also release alpha and beta radition and radon in addition to mercury, sulphur dioxide, CO and CO2.
And what, pray tell, do those clichés have to do with the fact that nuclear pollution will be killing people thousands or tens of thousands of years into the future?

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Greger, do you feel that nuclear energy is no different than any other force, such as forest fires, floods, hurricanes, etc?

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Originally Posted by Greger
All in good time my friend. It's overpopulation that will probably kill us as a species, not the fuel we feed our fires with.
And that is the core problem. All the rest is peripheral noise. Growing, consuming populations is the real cancer that will do us all in if it continues on the unsustainable path it is on.

And as far as energy sources go--pick your poison.


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Quote
the fact that nuclear pollution will be killing people thousands or tens of thousands of years into the future?
Fact? Have you got a link to prove that this is a fact?
Perhaps a newspaper clipping from thousands of years in the future?
If Global Warming is also a "Fact" then there will be no life remaining on this planet besides a few heat and radiation tolerant cockroaches. I wont call your fears unfounded, but irrational? Yes...irrational, possibly a little obsessive and definitely failing to credit the human race with the ability to adapt and survive that has gotten it this far along.
As I pointed out earlier, natural nuclear pollution in the form of Radon already kills several thousand people a year.
You may disagree but I'm fairly certain that nuclear waste can be buried deeply enough that tens of thousands of years will be but the blink of an eye concerning its reemergence and danger to whatever society may exist on this planet eons into the future.


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Greger, do you feel that nuclear energy is no different than any other force, such as forest fires, floods, hurricanes, etc?


Forest fires, floods, hurricanes etc. as with the radon you are currently breathing in with no concern are natural occurrences. You are asking if I believe nuclear energy is the same as weather extremes. No, nuclear energy is not caused by the climate. Neither are coal or oil fired power generation plants.

Wood, coal, petroleum, and uranium are all naturally occurring substances that can be used to create heat and energy. If you believe any of them is "safe" you are quite wrong. Crank your car and see how long you can stay in your garage without dying. Or just light a little charcoal fire in your closed bedroom and go to sleep. Forever.

But millions upon millions of trucks and automobiles are currently spewing their exhaust into the atmosphere. millions upon millions of tons of coal are being burned and spewing the resultant contaminants into the atmosphere. Mining of all sorts releases nuclear contaminants into the atmosphere. Do you believe that floods and forest fires, tornadoes and hurricanes are the same as these?
There are certain dangers inherent to the use of nuclear power. But they are dangers that can be dealt with. Some will die, just as other energy sources have and will continue to take many many lives.


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Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
Greger, do you feel that nuclear energy is no different than any other force, such as forest fires, floods, hurricanes, etc?


Forest fires, floods, hurricanes etc. as with the radon you are currently breathing in with no concern are natural occurrences. You are asking if I believe nuclear energy is the same as weather extremes. No, nuclear energy is not caused by the climate. Neither are coal or oil fired power generation plants.

Wood, coal, petroleum, and uranium are all naturally occurring substances that can be used to create heat and energy. If you believe any of them is "safe" you are quite wrong. Crank your car and see how long you can stay in your garage without dying. Or just light a little charcoal fire in your closed bedroom and go to sleep. Forever.

But millions upon millions of trucks and automobiles are currently spewing their exhaust into the atmosphere. millions upon millions of tons of coal are being burned and spewing the resultant contaminants into the atmosphere. Mining of all sorts releases nuclear contaminants into the atmosphere. Do you believe that floods and forest fires, tornadoes and hurricanes are the same as these?
There are certain dangers inherent to the use of nuclear power. But they are dangers that can be dealt with. Some will die, just as other energy sources have and will continue to take many many lives.
Radioactivity is different. We really don't need it. It's not the same.

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Originally Posted by Greger
Quote
the fact that nuclear pollution will be killing people thousands or tens of thousands of years into the future?
Fact? Have you got a link to prove that this is a fact?
Perhaps a newspaper clipping from thousands of years in the future?
It is as much a fact as anything can be. There is no safe level of radioactivity. A single alpha-particle can be fatal.

It is true that we are surrounded by natural radioactivity, but it is idiotic to increase the level of risk.

Originally Posted by Greger
You may disagree, but I'm fairly certain that nuclear waste can be buried deeply enough that tens of thousands of years will be but the blink of an eye concerning its reemergence and danger to whatever society may exist on this planet eons into the future.
Of course nuclear waste can be properly disposed of, and if nuclear power were managed with even a minimum level of rationality, it would be a desirable form of energy production.

It is quite obvious that human beings are not even minimally rational. Therefore, nuclear power is not desirable.

I have myself proposed what I think might be a proper form of of nuclear waste disposal. Store the waste in glass pellets, and then dump the pellets in the deepest canyons of oceanic subduction trenches. The waste would not re-emerge on the Earth's surface for millions of years, mixed with and diluted by lava, and with almost all radioactivity gone.

Is the moronic human race rushing to implement this plan, or any other minimally rational plan?

No? I rest my case.

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Radiation is good for you?

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