Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Politics In General Sense vs. Nonsense in Debt Ceiling Debate

Maybe another Bush?

A fundamental point - an economy is the circulation of goods and services (often represented by money).

Cutting spending is cutting circulation. There's an off-chance that cutting circulation might not stimulate the economy.

Capisce?

And maybe, just maybe, if we all clap loud enough, Tinkerbelle will live!!!


I'll add that one to the long list of statements you've made that show you're living in a fantasy world.

Just where is this extra money going to come from with all this austerity? From the middle class? Not hardly. What's left of the middle class has no money to spend. From the upper classes? Not hardly. They've benefited from the destruction of the middle class and, to the extent that they are "job creators" (what a joke), they have created and will certainly continue to create jobs elsewhere, certainly not in the USA. Maybe there's some history that might suggest that austerity will lead to prosperity??? Not hardly...in fact, history suggests just the opposite. See FDR's acceptance of "austerity" which was pushed by Republicans in 1937 and the effect that had on the economy which, until then, was slowly recovering from the Depression.

I have yet to find one, single historical example of austerity leading to job creation and a healthy growth rate. I would love to be enlightened, as it would keep me from abject despair.

interesting that you recognize some political realities but continue to endorse nonsense ... as i am not privy to "the scam" could you clue me in???

o once it becomes moral then yeah they are on the right side of ... what kind of garbage is that? it's a moral thing ... i guess that would work for the Xians

My political stance? you dont even know what my stance is? i have been trying to educate you to a variety of scenarios of what will happen which you flippantly ignore apparently as irrelevant to someone's ultimate goal of destroying America ... what does that mean? well for one the markets being very edgy due to instability introduced by tenuous budgetary constraints will undoubtedly not react well .... now this is precisely the very thoughts purveyed by conservatives that Obama is not stabilizing the financial situation which would restore confidence for markets to expand i.e. working contrary to their intentions (why would they do that?)

there can be only one explanation: it is political ... destroy the president by destroying the economy which by deduction destroys America

the second item is much easier to predict: there are two possibilities first, we can pay all financial obligations and not default i.e. pay mandatory ... your homework assignment is to find out how much budget is, how much deficit there is, how much the mandatory is, calculate to see how much money is left over to pay for government services ... this is the no government option or the destruction of government as we know it option or to read the political version to destroy the president by destroying the government which deductively destroys the country

the second is to selectively pay those mandatory obligations and still maintain a modicum of government service ... your homework assignment to find out what the minimal government service is and how much does it cost i.e. this is the limited government option for which tea people such as yourself and all those brilliant, savvy, thoughtful conservatives in Congress want ... this option is the giuco piano of politics i.e. to chip away at every possible exposure until the president is destroyed and by deduction America

I think limbaugh said it best yesterday when he reiterated his stance that he hopes the president fails (but of course he doesn't mean the country) ... for conservatives they apparently see any possible success as a success for the president instead of seeing a success for the country

a viable plan??? really, don't you mean conservative plan? because it passes the house doesn't make it viable and to think that the senate would vote for a conservative plan to destroy America ... well that is not going to happen ... the correct spin is the conservatives are intractable to the point of willingness to destroy America in order to maintain their pledge not to raise taxes ...

wow the only correct message is the conservatives were unwilling to compromise ...

the politics more important thing is another way of saying he didn't agree to the conservative plan to destroy America
i.e. if i don;t agree to their plan it's my fault, but why haven't they compromised on my plan, isn't that their fault?

ok now a dose of reality ... it is all about politics ... has nothing to do with saving the country just defeating the president ... gee how crass

i don't know how to respond to you except to note i feel fairly confident you do not understand political reality. Yes I have a very good understanding of tea people. They as yourself are true believers and you extol that sickness as if it is a virtue only because you are unaware it is a sickness.

magical thinking ... there is a thread on this

standard conservative economics but have you done any research on how much money has been injected into the economy and still there is no demand ... so the question is just how much money is necessary??? (non-magical thinking zone)

well as they say in texas if a bullfrog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped ... what if the economy jumps without a cut ... whose the darling?

[you have entered the non-magical thinking zone]
suppose a 5% cut is implemented ... was that money from taxes? or borrowed money or both? lets see at the current situation 2.5/3.8 = 66% which is the amount of actual revenue ... so lets suppose that 5% is both because it probably is then we have 3.3% generated from taxes ... the other 1.7% would be from borrowed money which would not enter the US market

so in essence we would get a 3.3% tax break ... but who is getting that money? yeah you guessed it ... people who have already gotten the biggest tax breaks. since we have already seen what those tax breaks look like, why would you even think something would all of a sudden change and the economy turn around??? could it be magical thinking? now if you have a number in mind, and i have asked numerous times for you to tell us how much tax cutting is necessary and you never answered, you apparently believe there is a number. So go ahead and give it to us.

the fundamental problem is i don;t believe there are any economists who know why an economy turns around. All economists do is to try and mitigate the consequences of economic contraction through either monetary policy or government stimulation but in either case the understanding of the cause is very weak. The strongest example against cutting the budget is Reagan's last years in office when he continued to run budget deficits and the economy expanded.

So please enter the non-magical thinking zone and offer some numbers.

short the market, make some money so you can be a dirty filthy capitalist ... perhaps that is what the doctor ordered

as usual you missed the point ... it was not an analogy ... it is a statement that sometime in our past we were faced with what tea people would currently describe as insurmountable financial problems (generational theft)and we overcame them through diligent resolve not through ridiculous rhetoric (shut it down)

its not working for Ireland.

Govenment spending has been slashed here and taxes have been raised. more cuts and tax increases due over the next 3 years to bring spending in line with income.

Best that can be said in terms of growth rates is that were just about holding steady - mainly due to exports - domestic demand is still falling (and the housing market is still collapsing). Little or no new jobs.

any monies saved and raised goes straight to our creditors

1.8 million taxpayers - likely to be 200bn in debt, the bulk of which will be bank bailout and guarantees. And without any chance to reinvest monies into the economy, our growth rates will never lift. No way in hell were going to be able to pay that off.

If you look at anything in the abstract you can always justify an argument. What I am telling you is that the opportunities that presented themselves to America and her newly renovated business infrastructure are not present in todays environment. Europe doesn't need America's support to rebuild their cities, supply appliances for homes and machine tools for business. America no longer has a GI Bill that allowed a constant influx of highly educated people to enter the workplace and purchase new homes. Today we a disfuntional government that applies laws and regulation without completely thing through the results, or worse we have incomplete laws and regulation that are going to be enforced but haven been finished yet.

The promise that was 1948 is no longer hanging in the air, today al we get is doom and gloom. Our leader is about as charismatic as a mushroom, the opposition leader likes to cry at news conferences, the party in power can't do enough to demotivate the population. From disavowing "American Superiority" to demonizing anybody who disagrees with their policies, Congress can't do enough to give the America people the cold shoulder, unless of course the people in question are in America illegally. Then Americans are accused of being xenophobes and rubes who don't know what is good for themselves.

The truth is the economy sucks and doesn't seem to want to get better. Nothing that has been tried has come close to working and still the Administration insists on creating a class warfare environment, talking about private planes and limozines and the rich not paying their fair share, all the while telling the people who support the illegal invaders that it is the other guys who are their enemies. If Obama can turn this economy around he has my vote, why change what is working. If he can't he doesn't because why vote for what doesn't work? That would be akin to Presidential welfare.