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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
Won't we all be shocked, I say, shocked, when when 99% of economists are correct, U.S. debentures become toxic, the dollar is replaced by other currencies as the "reserve" currency, a second Great Depression grips the world, the standard of living in the U.S. drops to that of a third world country (OK, maybe only for most of us), and we struggle for decades to recover from the "lost decade" of 2008-2018? I will so hate to say "we told you so."
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,819 Likes: 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,819 Likes: 2 |
Ah! 20 or 30% unemployment. Now there's an employers dream come true!
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar
Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,428 Likes: 1
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,428 Likes: 1 |
Small point, big problem. Derivatives.
Credit Default Swaps. Legal problem. On Government bond CDS, there are no provisions (as far as anyone knows) for a shutdown, however short. A one minute shutdown qualifies as an actual default. Hundreds of billions of leveraged dollars are at risk. Possibly enough to bring down the world wide markets.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,085 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,085 Likes: 134 |
If you look at anything in the abstract you can always justify an argument wow you must think i am stupid or cant read & comprehend yes it was not an analogy and you still don;t get it If Obama can turn this economy around he has my vote wow LOL really ... come on tell the truth ... not ever would you vote for Obama even if you found out he was God you would vote against him here is the reality ... no one knows what makes the economy contract and expand ... policy changes are used to mitigate economic contraction ... the whole intention of this administrations economic policies was to keep it from sliding into an abyss ... that has happened but the economic expansion has not why change what is working this is disingenuous ... the Bush administration end with an economic disaster and you still didn;t vote for a change so give me a break Nothing that has been tried has come close to working do you really not remember the last year of the Bush administration??? we went from losing 850k jobs a month and projected losing increases to adding jobs we went from negative GDP to positive GDP what about that does not sound like nothing worked??? was it some magic no one noticed that changed all of that and policies did nothing (now remember part of those policies are heavily weighted with tax cuts)
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
No no, rp, you don't understand. Nothing that worked was a Republican effort, therefore, by definition, it didn't work.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,085 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,085 Likes: 134 |
since this thread is about debt ceiling i am calling on Ma_Rep to outline with some specificity what will happen on 2 Aug i.e. as an example (based on 2010 budget), there is $175 billion available per month while the budget calls for $283 billion per month so $108 billion will not be spent
SS = $58B/m
Medicare = $66B/m
defense = $57B/m
interest = $16B/m
subtotal = $197B/m
so come on Ma_Rep please tell me what will be paid for and what will not?
[aside: you will notice not one of those items has anything to do with government]
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 1
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 1 |
I hemmed and I hawed because I'd been thinking about the question myself for so long and I wasn't sure I had any good answer. And what I finally came up with was this. Yes, at some level it's a game of chicken. Something we can all understand pretty intuitively in human nature and game theory terms. But to really get what's going on you've got to understand one key point: one of the two cars doesn't have a driver in it. Which changes everything.
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,085 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,085 Likes: 134 |
yeah i know ... overflow from hannity today
i don;t know where these characters get this but for some reason they believe only their plan is a plan or they wont negotiate and impeach the president when we dont get an amendment
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
One thing that is consistently (and deliberately, I contend), is that nearly a third of the "debt" the United States owes to itself. The outside debt is $9.75 Trillion - not small potatoes, but not a crisis. Source It's just sexier to paint it larger. Harder to panic if it is under $10 Trillion.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,523
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,523 |
Won't we all be shocked, I say, shocked, when when 99% of economists are correct, U.S. debentures become toxic, the dollar is replaced by other currencies as the "reserve" currency, a second Great Depression grips the world, the standard of living in the U.S. drops to that of a third world country (OK, maybe only for most of us), and we struggle for decades to recover from the "lost decade" of 2008-2018? I will so hate to say "we told you so." Just like all those global warming scientists were right?
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson
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