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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
I love that, Schlack! Brilliant!
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581 |
weeeeelllll ... your chittering suggested to me you are privvy to a singular economic model of which i am ignorant and which confutes my statement. I therefore asked to view it. If it was as, you could have advertised, then I would have retracted my statement buuuuttt you didn't offer a model instead you preferred to continue with some inane crapola.
There are several possibilities when one makes a statement ... you could have ignored it as uninteresting, you could have agreed with it, you could have disagreed with it but didn't know how to respond, etc or you could respond in disagreement and when asked for some substantive evidence you could have produced it or if there was no evidence you could have said gee i dont have any evidence but still believe it etc or simply said i retract what i said, i just dont have anything. yeah well whatever [proverbial cliche] You made a claim ("...no one knows what makes the economy contract and expand.") and I had a good chuckle over it, rporter314. I have made no economic or policy claims in this thread so there is nothing for me to defend nor am I obligated to provide a distraction from your previous claims by my acceding to your demand that I provide a plan or "evidence" of anything. But surely you are not suggesting that economic policies put into motion were not recognized as being detrimental long before the 'crash', are you?:-) July 2002 The Free Housing Market Enhancement Act also repeals the explicit grant of legal authority given to the Federal Reserve to purchase the debt of housing-related GSEs. GSEs are the only institutions besides the United States Treasury granted explicit statutory authority to monetize their debt through the Federal Reserve. This provision gives the GSEs a source of liquidity unavailable to their competitors.
Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges of Fannie, Freddie, and HLBB have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans.
However, despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government’s interference in the housing market, the government’s policies of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing.
Perhaps the Federal Reserve can stave off the day of reckoning by purchasing GSE debt and pumping liquidity into the housing market, but this cannot hold off the inevitable drop in the housing market forever. In fact, postponing the necessary but painful market corrections will only deepen the inevitable fall. The more people invested in the market, the greater the effects across the economy when the bubble bursts. I guess to anyone other than a Keynesian, it was kinda staring us in the face.;-) Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,581 |
Iss ... perhaps you will offer an answer to this (gee actually related to thread)
as an example (based on 2010 budget), there is $175 billion available per month while the budget calls for $283 billion per month so $108 billion will not be spent
SS = $58B/m
Medicare = $66B/m
defense = $57B/m
interest = $16B/m
subtotal = $197B/m
as can be seen there is no money for the government to function i.e. no one in Congress would have any money to pay staff or even get their own paycheck, but that is minor compared to the shutdown of essential services the government provides ...
can you offer your critique on what would be paid??? (i am using the 2010 numbers since they were the available numbers ... there is no loss in generality since the current numbers would be about the same) Why in the world would I care to play such a parlor game, rporter314? Hmmm..... Do you suppose president Obama secretly wants to force a default, and thus create a crisis, in order to crush and then restructure America into some sort of socialized mecca?:-) Yours, Issodhos
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,428 Likes: 1
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,428 Likes: 1 |
Received this from a Republican friend: These are all the programs that the new Republican House has proposed cutting. Read to the end.
Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy. $445 million annual savings.
Save America's Treasures Program. $25 million annual savings.
International Fund for Ireland. $17 million annual savings.
Legal Services Corporation. $420 million annual savings.
National Endowment for the Arts. $167.5 million annual savings.
National Endowment for the Humanities. $167.5 million annual savings.
Hope VI Program.. $250 million annual savings.
Amtrak Subsidies. $1565 billion annual savings.
Eliminate duplicative education programs. H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually.
U.S. Trade Development Agency. $55 million annual savings.
Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy. $20 million annual savings.
Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings.
John C. Stennis Center Subsidy. $430,000 annual savings.
Community Development Fund. $4.5 billion annual savings.
Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid. $24 million annual savings.
Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half. $7.5 billion annual savings
Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20%. $600 million annual savings.
Essential Air Service. $150 million annual savings.
Technology Innovation Program. $70 million annual savings.
Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program. $125 million annual savings.
Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization. $530 million annual savings.
Beach Replenishment. $95 million annual savings.
New Starts Transit. $2 billion annual savings.
Exchange Programs for Alaska, Natives Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusett . $9 million annual savings
Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants. $2.5 billion annual savings.
Title X Family Planning. $318 million annual savings.
Appalachian Regional Commission. $76 million annual savings.
Economic Development Administration. $293 million annual savings.
Programs under the National and Community Services Act. $1.15 billion annual savings.
Applied Research at Department of Energy. $1.27 billion annual savings.
FreedomCAR and Fuel Partnership. $200 million annual savings.
Energy Star Program. $52 million annual savings.
Economic Assistance to Egypt. $250 million annually.
U.S. Agency for International Development. $1.39 billion annual savings.
General Assistance to District of Columbia. $210 million annual savings.
Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority. $150 million annual savings.
Presidential Campaign Fund. $775 million savings over ten years.
No funding for federal office space acquisition. $864 million annual savings.
End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services.
Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act. More than $1 billion annually.
IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for some services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing it to remain as part of its budget. $1.8 billion savings over ten years.
Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees. $1 billion total savings.WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees. $1.2 billion savings over ten years.
Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of. $15 billion total savings.
Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress.
Eliminate Mohair Subsidies. $1 million annual savings.
Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. $12.5 million annual savings
Eliminate Market Access Program. $200 million annual savings.
USDA Sugar Program. $14 million annual savings.
Subsidy to Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). $93 million annual savings.
Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program. $56.2 million annual savings.
Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs. $900 million savings.
Ready to Learn TV Program. $27 million savings..
HUD Ph.D. Program.
Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act.
TOTAL SAVINGS: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years
My question is, what THE HELL is all this doing in the budget in the first place?
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 1
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,740 Likes: 1 |
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,819 Likes: 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,819 Likes: 2 |
Agreed. There should be a single post in next year's budget:
* Administrative Costs - Dismantling and Divestiture of the US Government.
Bankruptcy for the Government, basically. Stage one is winding down now. When the Government can no longer pay its bills, its worth and the people's Faith in Government will rapidly trend toward zero. As this happens, the flight from the US dollar will only accelerate, accelerating not only the value of assets held by those who have had the good sense to keep their wealth in real property and solid goods, but also forcing the Government to sell its assets in order to pay existing debt. This downward spiral will soon have the Beast in the bathtub, ripe for drowning.
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar
Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134 |
Do you suppose president Obama secretly wants to force a default, and thus create a crisis, in order to crush and then restructure America into some sort of socialized mecca? no ... what i suppose is the tea people have had an epiphany that they can effectively limit government beyond their wildest expectations by not engaging in negotiations and the bonus is they will have put all entitlement programs on the block. Ron Paul is thinking to himself, gee even though he is not a part of the tea movement, there is the opportunity for limited government within his grasp. The president will have no option but to execute the mandated obligations to maintain government and pay the public debt. Since you must have written your comment from fantasyland, let me point out there is no money to do anything much less turn America into anything you can imagine. Your comment is exactly the type of comment I would have expected from any of the tea people i.e. a complete lack of concern of the consequences of their actions and like almost all conservatives they would take no responsibility for them.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134 |
July 2002 ... staring us in the face wow now i do have to wonder you cite an article which does not predict economic contraction but outlines what would happen if it did occur. Every economist can tell you what would happen if it did occur but none of them can tell you when it will occur. when ... when ... when (i am typing that in english?) Your citation is like appealing to Nostradamus. here is an example of an economic prediction: based on variables a(i), i have devised an equation which not only explains historical data but predicts that if a(i) behaves in a singular manner that at time t the economy will expand/contract. The prediction of course is better when the scalar value of t is longer than the scalar value of the length of your nose. (Predictions aren't very valuable when you are on the edge of the bubble). this is interesting as it demonstrates your adherence to some economic philosophy which suggests to me the real possibility you are nothing more than a partisan of some kind probably libertarian which is ok as everyone has to be something BUT your assumption is i must likewise be as you but perhaps the opposite. Now had you paid attention to what i have said you should have discerned that when it comes to economics i don;t believe any one brand tells the whole story. Thus depending on situation the Austrians may work, or the Chicagoans, or the Keynesians may work.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,245 Likes: 33 |
Some out there may find the following graphs of interest--and principal: Charting the American Debt Crisis
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,853 |
' Do you suppose president Obama secretly wants to force a default, and thus create a crisis, in order to crush and then restructure America into some sort of socialized mecca? Sounds like a good idea to me---after all, nothing else is working ! · · ·  Imagine ! The United States working as smoothly and sensibly as Sweden, Denmark and Holland !! As close to heaven on earth as you are likely to get !
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