Capitol Hill Blue Forums Science and Technology Health, Medicine & the healing Sciences Drug deaths now outnumber traffic fatalities in U.

Sorry if I have missed it Phil. but I am nit sure what is the point that is being made...

As I understand it , Lots of the deaths are some how connected to
various prescription pain killers....

Lets suppose that these painkillers became generic and were available over the counter at a low price like ibuprofen... lets say 100 pills of vicodine for $10... would that change the death rate? I ask because I am trying to figure out if it is a result of drug advertising, drug company profiteering... por what is the cause of all these deaths? Or. possibly, it is just people being carless

It is of course people being careless, reckless and whatever else you might say of them. But given the billions of dollars in advertising for these drugs and the promise they will take care of all our problems, it is not a one sided carelessness.

Why do you suppose drug companies advertise? If they simply produce good pharms that helped people, I am quite sure doctors would know that and prescribe carefully. But that is not what is going on. People are sold dangerous drugs with slick and persuasive campaigns.

The they give you cautionary warnings about death. dismemberment, and shrinking sex organs (j/k) that are read at a pace no one can possibly consider as a way of evading their responsibility.

Listen, there are many drugs that are at least as helpful to common ailments that are still illegal. That is the point. Big pharm is killing people legally because of course, you don't have to abuse their products. Well, you don't have to abuse the drugs that are illegal either, so why the different treatment?

Why is it that one is warned not to abruptly end suing some drugs, like prozac? Because they are addictive, that is why. Are we dealing with rogue production of oxycontin? No, drug companies produce and push their poison.

My point is simple -- it is hypocrisy in the extreme.

Extreme hypocrisy seems rather commonplace these days.

Phil
There is much that you say that is beyond argument. There all all sorts bad things that one can say about Pharma, and other companies.

But as regard to this particular issue... as I understand it the main cause of these extra deaths is not related to erections that last more than 4 hours. It is mostly having to do with pain meds like Vicodin and oxy... and I really cannot remember the last time I saw an advertisement for either of these products. Drug companies have no need to advertise these products... any more that the local pusher needs to advertise heroin, crack or meth.

So, yeah, drug companies develop drugs that we do not need, and for which good and inexpensive products already exist. And they push their products through advertising... regardless of the efficacy or value.

But it seems to me that these hypocrisies are little related to the number of people dying from careless use of pain killers.

By the way, as a side off topic note.... I recently had some experience with Oxycontin. I dd not realize that it is essentially a long acting version of Vicodin (hydrocodone.)

Anyway, I took this stuff to relieve pain at bed time so I could get to sleep.... and was more than a little surprised to discover that I had an addiction after only a couple weeks on a fairly low dose at bed time only. Obviously it was not a serious problem... I was able to deal with it... but I had the classic symptoms shakes, etc. And, more surprising... my body knew when to expect it's fix... so I only had withdrawal symptoms at bed time. But that minor experience showed me how very dangerous these medications can be. And how someone with a serious long term pain problem could very easily wind up with a nasty unplanned addiction.

One can learn a lot from the experience of the military. We have a serious prescription drug abuse problem as a result of the exposure of so many injured servicemembers to high-end narcotics. By that I mean Oxycodone and hydrocodone. But there are many other medications out there that are silent killers/maimers. It is kind of like the Ford Pinto. Ford continued to manufacture the car despite actual evidence of fatal explosion risk as a result of a manufacturing defect involving the gas tank. The "exposure" of the company was small relative to the profit margin, as it rarely exploded, and most Pintos drove millions of miles without a mishap. The risk/reward calculation came out in favor of continued production.

Make no mistake, though, we all make the same calculation. Doctors and patients do it all the time. I was on a series of medications to reduce blood pressure, cholesterol, and chronic pain. Several years later, my doctor (with my consent) determined that I was only getting marginal relief from the BP and cholesterol meds, so we discontinued them. It turns out my risk was higher than we thought, and that the arthritis medication was the one that actually was the highest risk factor. I have now reversed the calculation, no longer take the arthritis meds and am now taking the BP and other meds.

Whenever one takes medication one has to weigh the pros and cons of such meds. The risk for untoward consequences may be statistically low, but when you are the statistic, it can have profound effects on your life. It is the way of life. What we are really seeing - and this article points out - is that the calculation is changing as a result of additional information. The risks are higher than anticipated - but it is very difficult, on an individual basis, to make that calculation. We're usually talking about less than a percentage change in the risk.

A couple of points about the article, by the way. I think that the only fair reading of the article is that drug-induced deaths are both from legal AND illegal drugs. Wrapped into the discussion was a comparison between prescription and illicit drug use, which created confusion. The thrust of the article is that the component of prescription drug deaths has risen dramatically, and no accounts for more deaths than illicit drug use. Whether this point was obscured deliberately or inadvertently is difficult to determine.

That was why I underlined a portion of the quote in my original post.

Ihave to agree with both Phil and numan that prescription drugs are pushed upon us. Just look at the advertising. Drugs are promoted like snake oil, urging consumers to ask their doctors for them. Doctors are given free samples by the drug reps and asked to give them to patients. Other posters are also correct when they state that it is the choice of consumers to take/abuse these drugs, whether legally prescribed, illegal altogether, or illegally obtained prescription drugs. It seems to be a whole mixture of reasons. People want instant gratification, and a lot of physicians don't want to spend the time with patients to really investigate what is wrong. It is not cost-effective. Much easier to prescribe a narcotic and shut them up.

Big Pharma also does not adequately research and test these medicines. Look at how many commercials abound for people to call lawyers to sue, once problems crop up. Avandia, Phen-fen, and others, marketed too soon, so that Big Pharma can start making a profit. I realize that the drugs I named are not necessarily narcotics, but it is the result of greed and instant gratification on the parts of Big Pharma, doctors and consumers.

And,... this also doesn't take into account items fast tracked into the market by well connected political facilitators such as aspertame (Nutri-sweet/Searle Corp) pushed through the FDA by none other than good ol' Donald Rumsfield. Nevermind it's addictive and very bad for you.... And that other crap they were feeding cows so they would produce more milk.... I forget the name of that stuff but, it was recalled.... Canadian experts told them no way but the US FDA said sure, go ahead and feed it the dumb ass Americans, they'll eat aything.... Procilac, I think.????

Bottom line, it is up to each and every one of us to be informed about what we put into our bodies, we can't depend on doctors or even the FDA to keep us safe. You can look at overdosing on any type of substance as natural selection, the dumb ones die off like they are supposed to and the smart ones live and flourish.

By the same standard, I don't think anyone should tell me what I can or cannot injest or rub into my navel if I so desire. It's none of the government's business.

May I share my experience of my trying to stop all use of pain-killing drugs. At my request I was sent into Palm Springs to a pain control group of doctors who give 3 simple shots in the spine to stop pains throughout the body.

I had 4 joint replacements and healed quickly with minimum pain and my workouts in the swimming pools in Arizona and California seemed to fix what ailed me. When I moved back to California my lower back exploded in pain I never felt in my life. I had both babies in the lobby of our hospital and laughed at the term "labor."

I blamed it on the 100 plus boxes of books during my move and even driving to the nearest pool had to be done after 2 Vicodens. My doctor put me on Oxicoden which is the strongest medication given. So I cheerfully accepted the shots given to me quickly.

I could have had an shot so that the second shot would not hurt. Being brave and somewhat stupid I braved it cold. The last time I saw a needle that big was to clear the intestines of one of our horses. I laid face down on a bed with my butt on a pillow and my pants down. They put in a needle that showed my spine on a computer screen and warned me what was next. I felt that damn needle all the way into my head. Wham!!!

I have to go back in two weeks for another shot and I wonder if I have the courage to do it. Those Vicoden did not hurt; in fact nothing hurt after taking a couple. I had called a cab as I was worried about driving home and I was right! I was dizzy and disoriented until I walked into my house.

I will go back as I will not be a victim of overdosing on pain pills. The difference is that this time I will take the pre-shot and will need a "Keeper" because I will be in a wheel chair until I get into a car. I'm hoping that this pain was because my spine was somehow inflamed and the next shot will not hurt. If I'm wrong, don't tell me.

The office was filled with people in pain. There were posters of Jerry Lewis all over the lobby as he apparently lives on these shots. This did not make me feel any better.

I'm up this morning and I believe the back is actually better! My head is throbbing even after I won the Giants game last night. I am apparently a wuss when it comes to pain and I actually cried last night for the company of Kate my lovely yellow lab. She could make anyone feel good. She also loved football and these damn cats won't even stay in the same room with me when I have a game on.

Sandy I am so sorry you have to endure such pain and hope it gets better again soon.

I've lost a number of people in my life due to alcohol and/or drug abuse. Technically speaking, their deaths were completely preventable. Considering the history of social and cultural norms (based on values and traditions) and human behaviors as we know them to be in a more veritable reality, maybe their deaths weren't preventable.

I lost a brother to heroin addiction about 10 years or so ago. After 30 years of being an addict, he overdosed.

I've had my own problems related to this topic, which are now far behind me by some 25 years.

The above said, I'm in favor of the legalization of every known drug, legal or illegal.

IMHO, institutional wars on drugs and a long history of failed drug laws...well, to me the conclusion should is clear. I sincerely believe that as a result of failed laws and so-called "War on Drug" actions by law enforcement and governments - they have been the cause of many more deaths than the current number of statistical deaths caused by abuse and addiction. I also believe that much of the criminal elements that have occurred most likely would be substantially reduced or cease to exist.

Some may see my inferences above as just uninformed notions. Some might see them as boring and irrelevant. Or some might find them offensive and worthy of a confrontational exchange of opinion.

Bottom Line...

Whether or not my opinions and position is agreed with or disagreed with - we'll never see such a bold legislative action to allow such legalization to exist. Like the First Amendment - it's not an open invitation to say and do anything a person wants to engage in. Neither could the legalization of all drugs be a boundless proposition. There are boundaries to every liberty and/or freedom.