Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Foreign Policy & News Petraeus Assessment

I always thought the administration dictating a political paradigm to the Iraqis was the worse thing the administration could have done. The architects never had democracy in mind as they wanted to install the pro-American Chalabi as leader. Democracy ... what a crock. It's democracy if the results are what they want .... it's a terrorist government if not.

What difference does it make if they don't evolve? So what if they remain a theocracy. Unless you have an urge to "enlighten" them with Western culture I don't see a problem.

I'm all for sovereignty as well, and I don't think we Americans are particularly in a favorable position to be dictating to other countries on the subject of fair-minded and open governance. Nevertheless, I recognize that it might be better for most Iraqi's if there is some kind of separation between Shari'a and State. I don't know if that's the case, but I think it's important to provide the best possible environment for the Iraqis to figure that out for themselves.

Because we all have so much emotionally invested in Iraq, whichever side of the question of the Occupation we happen to fall on, it's harder for us to see and bear the suffering that is likely to come whether we withdraw our military forces or not.

I hope you're right about the Muqtada. I think he and al Sistani are Iraq's best hopes right now for unity, and IMHO nothing could complement the fierce Shi'ite nationalist and conciliatory ally of Khameni than a strong, perhaps even principled, Kurd like Jala Talabani.

In your opinion from your cultural perspective. What of the Iraqi perspective and their cultural heritage? Should we dismiss and marginalize it because we have a more "enlightened" culture? Isn't this the same rationalization all colonial powers have used to subjugate and maintain control over their subjects?

I am sorry I have to reject that argument.


I am very leery of the Kurds and their intentions. Whereas I support their efforts for an independent sovereign nation, in the current situation the Kurds I believe have played the US for all it's worth.

The US utilized the support of PKK and PUK listed terrorists organizations to facilitate the overthrow of Saddam's regime in the north of Iraq. Even now the US looks the other way regarding the PKK's continued raids in Turkey, also an ally.

The Kurds I believe have been campaigning all along for independence probably waiting for the most opportune time to declare independence. It will probably not be soon as their position has to be completely galvanized with US support.

Note this
Autonomy, Oil Money Underlie Kurdish Goals in Iraq
by Anne Garrels and Steve Inskeep



Also note Talabani has visited both Syria and Iran, and several years ago Turkey. Could he have been testing the waters of not only the Iraqi situation but perhaps the sub-context of Kurdish independence?

some food for thought

Any idea of the number of those innocent Iraqi's the occupation has managed to spare?

General Petraeus is a professional soldier. He's a brilliant man and a helluva guy. But you can't expect him to see this any other way. We shouldn't be surprised he thinks there's long-term role for the military -- if you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Never forget that this is a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Yes, the president is the commander in chief, and he calls the military shots. But he is our employee -- he works for us. It is our job to take him out when he screws it up.

If you or I did our jobs the way this man has done his we would have been so fired so long ago it's a shame. I do not know why we all tippy toe around impeachment. It's not really personal. It's just the method the founders provided for us to get rid of a dud like George Bush.

We're much further down the road to monarchy than we dream.

There actually is some doubt about that, but I don't know if sacrificing another 3500+ G.I.'s makes sense no matter what the future holds for Iraq.
You know, Israel could take every country over there out tomorrow. I don't know why on earth so many of us think Israel needs our protection. I think we need Israel's protection at this point.Our absence would not empower Iran nearly as much as our presence has. There was strong pro-U.S. sentiment in Iran before we embarked on this insanity in Iraq. Their current posture towards us is total reaction to what we've done. It's entirely possible Iran would just settle right back down if we got the hell out of their part of the world and stopped trying to blow it up to protect oil & Israel.

I wish oil prices would go through the roof. It might be what it takes for us to plug the electric car back in and get independent of foreign oil once and for all.

Welcome Prospero. Your opinions are shared by many on this board. Not everyone tiptoes around impeachment.

Unfortunately, the people that matter most, do.

Bear in mind what I am saying is not what I want to happen but rather what I think will happen. I wish to hell we never invaded Iraq and wish we would get out ASAP. What I am saying in my posts is my prediction of our gummints thinking and future actions. I don’t see anyone electable who is going to do any different that what I have been saying.

Until we get a president and congress that is willing to engage in a Manhattan Project for energy, any talk of bailing cannot be taken seriously IMHO. I don’t think our citizens are willing to accept cutting back on energy usage. Remember what happened when Jimmy Carter suggest we put on a sweater and turn down the thermostat? He might as well suggested Osama Bin Laden be a Whitehouse guest.

Nice expression. I wish more people understood how valuable that would be for our nation - not just in the philosophical sense, but purely as a cost/benefit equation.

I remember very well when then-President Carter appeared in his "fireside chat" wearing a sweater. I remember how proud I was to have a President who was willing to ask us citizens to sacrifice a little something for some purpose loftier than war.

I also remember how disgusted I was to see the negative reactions of so many narcissistic fellow citizens.

Steve, that does bring up something interesting. I think our citizens want to do something and want to be asked to do something. I know I do. But it seems our politicians are afraid to ask because in their minds that might damage their reelection chances—which seems to be their only goal after being elected. Ever notice how when there is even a little disaster in your neighborhood everyone comes out into the streets and wants to help. They talk and mingle and really want to make a difference. It’s almost as if we in our insular little cocoons provided with everything are desperate to get out and help and do something to give. Disasters can sometimes be blessings in disguise.

I really think our nation wants to be asked to do something. We need people who will do the asking. I know if we don’t change our direction soon we will be provided the needed disaster—major league. How we deal with it remains to be seen.