Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Guns NRA tests a pet theory

I can easily see why it would LT ! >Mech

I think, Mech, you missed the point. OR, maybe there wasn't a point to your last post. What LT was saying, ever so politely, is that your last post made no sense. It lacked those things we have come to expect - logical coherence, citations, standard American English, etc. In short, if there was a point you were trying to make, it was not made.

Folks,

Seems a great many here are ready to join the lynch mob from the tone of their posts. Not unexpected, but most at odds with the leading gun forums and blogs, where skepticism and concern predominate at this time. But what are y'all going to say if it turns out this was a "righteous shooting" ?

There's reports the alleged "victim", Treyvon, was in the act of assaulting Hernandez when he was shot. And his eyewitness testimony to the PD may have been a factor in their releasing the shooter at the time. Its almost a certainty forensics will either support/refute this claim.

But on a larger scope, where was/is the "outrage" when two British tourists were gunned down by a 17 -year old black male in FL last April ? Why weren't there calls for "whites" to riot when a black man shot a white youth breaking into his car in NYS a couple of years back ? And why didn't the hoplophobes scream "foul" when the GJ refused to return a bill ?

IOW, the Treyvon case has been perverted by the media and others (IMO) onto a circus about race, and nothing whatsoever about law or justice ! "The usual suspects" have marshalled their forces to make this - ordinary street incident - a "cause celebre" for political purposes. Why so much hoopla over one when 10 died in Chicago ?

I suspect it has far more to do with FL's gun laws than any feelings of "loss" on the part of the protestors ! I also suspect they see this as a prime opportunity to, not merely "dance in the blood of the victim", but to manipulate the argument in light of the pending election, and to counter to recent revelations of USAG Holder's animus for guns, gun owners, and the white community in general . >Mech

Mech~Come on, even the NRA is saying that George Zimmerman was wrong, as does law enforcement in operating in Neighborhood Watch. The kid had an iced tea and a bag of Skittles in his hands and was wearing a hoodie, because it was raining. He was being stalked and then chased by a man who got out of his car openly carrying a weapon.I'd be scared and try and run for my life, too. But then, I am not a young black male in a nice area, which made 'ol Georgie suspicious-why? because in his little pea-brained mind, it was some gangsta trying to break in. And Georgie wanted to play Dirty Harry/be a hero. He broke every rule of 1)Neighborhood Watch, 2) what the police/sheriffs specifically told him NOT to do and 3)What common sense would ascribe. That you think people cannot make a reasonable judgement on that information shows a distinct lack of 1)logic and 2)common sense. More like an

I don't know who you are talking about. If one of the great many is me, let me set you straight. The facts, as I understand them, are that a neighborhood watch guy was suspicious of somebody in his neighborhood, called it in, then, against the rules for neighborhood watchmen and the clear request of the 911 dispatcher, confronted his suspect while in possession of a firearm, also against NW rules. He ended up shooting and killing his suspect, who turned out to be an unarmed kid. I can see no reason why Zimmerman was not arrested and an investigation begun immediately. I do not think that he should be lynched. I do not think that he should have been let loose because he claimed that he was defending himself.
Whatever the result of a reasonable legal process, fine with me.
Ahh, so you are the judge and jury? I'm advocating for a reasonable process for dealing with the shooting death of an unarmed boy. I'm not speculating on the outcome of the process. Who is Hernandez?

I have never heard of these incidents. Was a proper process followed? Did an unarmed kid get shot and killed with the shooter claiming self-defense so the local cops decided to not do anything? That is the subject of this thread. If your other examples bear on this, please explain.
I happen to agree that making this about race may be jumping the gun. I happen to think (the reason I started this thread and titled it the way I did) is that this is a good example of what happens when you set the stage for allowing overzealous, poorly trained Defenders loose with firearms and back them up with nebulous, self-determined Stand Your Ground laws. The pet theory of the NRA is that people will be responsible with firearms and need them to protect themselves. In this instance it would appear that the opposite of this theory occurred. Possession of a gun seems to have given Zimmerman an unwarranted sense of power and recklessness, which he may have abused. As for the rest of your statement, it seems to me that you are wandering into some dismal swamp of your own imagination and have become unintelligible to me.
This is more poorly translated Ukrainian in my view. It's no wonder that you think others are always careering off into the weeds with assumptions and strange agendas as you are a pro at that very thing.

In the not very distant past, there was an incident in my area that tracked this level of gross irresponsibility with a gun, resulted in the death of an innocent and unarmed young man, and in which the killer was not charged, based upon a claim of "self defense" when the shooter provoked the confrontation. I was outraged about that one too, and race had no role in it. He even reloaded after the kids drove off, then ambushed them when they passed him trying to get away (as it was a dead end street).

Indeed, the number of "self defense" justified homicides tripled following passage of this law, and Florida law enforcement officials were largely opposed to it at the time. A bad law is a bad law. I read, in discussion of this subject by a prosecutor, one incident where two gangs were involved in a shootout, and none of the participants charged because each could "plausibly" claim that they were acting in self defense. Common sense apparently is not required when guns enter the picture.

Martin's shooting had more to do with Zimmerman's Walter Mitty fantasy of being a neighborhood enforcer than anything else.
Racism, standing your ground, self defense, all minor factors compared to his larger than life dream of getting some bad guys and basking in the hero's glory.
This is the mindset that polluted his judgment and caused him to make the fatal mistake of shooting an unarmed law abiding kid who had every right to be where he was.
And that mistake in judgment also cost him whatever protection he might have sought under any self defense posture.

There is now a separate thread started on this incident with links. It appears that the news reports have been generally wrong, as the initial police reports do indicate that Zimmerman was transported to the station for questioning.

Stand-your-ground law had a sad his...-ground-law-had-a-sad.html#storylink=cpy or this
But the insanity keeps on coming: Iowa lawmaker will push ‘stand your ground’ despite Florida teen shooting

It has been a fixture of the common law, since before we were a country, that one could defend oneself with lethal force when confronted with death or grievous bodily harm. It has also been nearly universal that one is not required to retreat when confronted in your home. There are anectdotal examples of exceptions, but they are indeed rare.

The problem with this law is that it is the product of an ideological position, and not a "rational" process of development based upon real world experience. It is, therefore, poorly written and understood. I cannot provide a direct link to the statute (although there is one in the Trayvon Martin thread). Since its adoption in Florida there has been a 4 fold increase in the application of "justifiable homicide" in increasingly outlandish circumstances.

It is, I think, emblematic of the adoption of laws, not to address real world circumstances, but in the pursuit of ideological purity, and the failure of legislatures collectively, and legislators individually, to apply common sense and rational thought to their actions. It is also, in my opinion, the result of our failure as an electorate, to hold them accountable for their actions. Instead, we allow unelected special interest groups to control our laws. We should all be ashamed when we let that happen.