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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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OP
Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
FACT over $5T in NEW DEBT in the last three years. ... Still trying to determine what that "fact" is based on.... It seems to have been pulled from somewhere.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,431 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,431 Likes: 373 |
FACT over $5T in NEW DEBT in the last three years. ... Still trying to determine what that "fact" is based on.... It seems to have been pulled from somewhere. ...from the crack of this balloon.  ![[Linked Image from i48.photobucket.com]](http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f228/ca_rickf/image001.jpg)
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
Let's see if we can discuss this without getting into personal attacks, folks. I think it is incumbent on anyone asserting something as "fact" to provide a reference for the source. Also, I think it incumbent on such assertions to understand the accounting principles upon which such "facts" are based, and the governmental budgeting process when assigning blame. Having said that, I find it interesting to note a discrepancy in the argument: Asserting that "President Obama has created $5 Trillion in new debt," but at the same time "not having passed a budget." Isn't there a fundamental disconnect between those concepts? It is simply not possible for the President to have incurred new debt because he does not control the purse strings. Only Congress can appropriate money and incur debt on behalf of the United States. U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8: Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts....;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States Now, I am willing to admit that President Bush talked Congress into gutting the revenue stream of the government and setting a course for excessive deficits. I have yet to see any evidence to support the argument that President Obama was able to do nearly as much damage.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
Just to put some meat on those bones: The Bush Deficit; The Truth About Who's Responsible For The Explosion In Government Spending; Who's To Blame for the Massive Deficit? - Now, before anyone runs off and accuses me of picking "liberal" sources, note that #2 is from Business Insider and #3 from the CATO Institute - clearly bastions of big-government liberal thinking.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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OP
Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 21,134 |
And of course the lead article is from the WSJ, not know for its liberal leanings.
Science really should study the Republican brain, it must have some truly marvelous ways of denial.
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,010
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,010 |
I believe that topic is current spending increases, not deficit.
I think that no one has shown that increased spending by the current administration has generated the large deficits
So while the deficits may be deplorable, we still await evidence that recent spending increases are the cause of that problem.
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,523
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,523 |
I believe that topic is current spending increases, not deficit.
I think that no one has shown that increased spending by the current administration has generated the large deficits
So while the deficits may be deplorable, we still await evidence that recent spending increases are the cause of that problem. \ I guess that depends on your definition of large. A deficit is caused by a combination of falling revenues and over spending, and in this case a moron controling the pocketbook. And of course adding $5T+ to the deficit is a bad thing, unless you are a federal employee.
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
I guess that depends on your definition of large. A deficit is caused by a combination of falling revenues and over spending, and in this case a moron controling the pocketbook. And that moron be Boehner and his NonCon cronies... yup. 
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,088 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,088 Likes: 134 |
It seems to have been pulled from somewhere i think i can answer that question correctly almost all (notice i left some wiggle room as there may actually be a conservative who does use the "facts") conservatives conveniently assume the Bush 2009 fiscal budget as Obama's first budget and thus they immediately have Obama at -$1.4T deficit the correct accounting would be to include budgets from 2010, 2011, 2012 which are only three budgets and total about $4T in deficits and if we include the projected 2013 budget deficit coming in at -$900B and adding we would have totaled deficits of about -$5T i do not think Ma_Rep knows or understands where the number comes from as this is a case of accidentally getting the right (close anyway) answer if we include a proposed budget but don;t let me confuse you with the facts ... simply believe what you want to
ignorance is the enemy without equality there is no liberty America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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