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old hand
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Since a tax cut is approved by Congress, that money is already taken out of the calculation during budgeting. The House turned Dem in 2007, I believe the last year that a budget was actually approved was in 2008. If a budget was passed and approved with knowlege that the funding was cut by bi-partisan tax cuts, then it is the height of irresponsibility for Congress to authorize funds above and beyond what is actually available to be spent. The tax cuts were passed 6 and 4 years respectively BEFORE the Democrats took control of the House. Very much REPUBLICAN tax cuts. The revenue was cut by the Republicans.
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,583 |
Since a tax cut is approved by Congress, that money is already taken out of the calculation during budgeting. The House turned Dem in 2007, I believe the last year that a budget was actually approved was in 2008. If a budget was passed and approved with knowlege that the funding was cut by bi-partisan tax cuts, then it is the height of irresponsibility for Congress to authorize funds above and beyond what is actually available to be spent. The tax cuts were passed 6 and 4 years respectively BEFORE the Democrats took control of the House. Very much REPUBLICAN tax cuts. The revenue was cut by the Republicans. But those are facts- MA don't need no stinkin' facts! 
milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)
Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
By the by, there is far too much personal characterization going on in this thread. As a reminder, the guidelines provide that personal attacks ajd cheap shots are not allowed. I don't think that I need to provide examples. It would be my preference that those who have so posted, and you know who you are, delete the offensive content. This is a public forum, and our reputation for decorum is suffering.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,583
Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 27,583 |
NWP~I think that rporter314 was replying to MA's quote and asking you(in your capacity as a moderator) to excuse him while he posted a rebuttal. Nevertheless, you are indeed correct. Please, I reiterate that we all put a lot more courteousness and civility into our posts. Leave the sarcastic personal remarks out of our posts, as required by the Reader Rant Guidelines. Thank you for everyone's prompt and immediate cooperation.
Scoutgal Administrator
milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)
Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.
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Joined: Sep 2001
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He "goes there" because the alternative would require thought, logic and a basic understanding of the facts...a trifecta which is unfathomable to him.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
Goes there? Or lives there? B'lieve there's a difference.
Limbaugh goes there, Dittoheads live there. He goes to their neighborhoods to get his jollies and take their dough, just like a TeeVee Preacher. It's a great part of la comedie humaine.
'twas ever thus.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,723
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Joined: Sep 2001
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A look back... According to the Congressional Budget Office's January 2009 estimate for fiscal year 2009, outlays were projected to be $3,543 billion and revenues were projected to be $2,357 billion, leaving a deficit of $1,186 billion. Keep in mind that these estimates were made before Obama took office, based on existing law and policy, and did not take into account any actions that Obama might implement. snip To recap, the deficit came in $223 billion higher than projected, but spending was $28 billion and revenues were $251 billion less than expected. Thus we can conclude that more than 100 percent of the increase in the deficit since January is accounted for by lower revenues. Not one penny is due to higher spending. the above is from an article written by Bruce Bartlett back in October of 2009.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,088 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,088 Likes: 134 |
Not one penny is due to higher spending this is apparently irrelevant to conservatives as analysis like that would never enter the conversation BTW the historical data for revenues and budgets can be DL from of all places the internet i did a quick review and took a peak at some other stats involving GDP (apparently conservatives will go out of their way to find stats which will show large numbers but may or may not be misleading). [the following is all just simple minded, making no assumptions about who did what where and when with no attempt at duplicity] In Bush's first cycle the budget was raised 20%. For the whole set Bush's budgets were raised 55% over 8 years. In Obama's cycle, he has raised his budgets 5.6%. Now I am strictly using 2010 as his first, since that is what he was left with. But for our conservative nit pickers suppose we begin some manipulation of data (yikes shades of climatology) Lets assume for comparative sake and use Bush's 2009 requested budget which came in at $3.1T (as opposed to the $3.5T actual). Obama's cycle now becomes 22.6%. But wait there is more. Conservatives like to compare spending to GDP, so for Obama we get 24%, which is historically high but for comparative values Pres Reagan was rated at 22% GDP. Of course it is a dishonest comparison but then it does speak to the use of stats by conservatives. So conservatives may say, what about those deficits? well i thought about doing an analysis of Bush era budgets and saddle him with a recession for his whole term and some arbitrary stimulus package (he did make a weak response) and see how high the deficits would have been (Obama has been burdened with a trifecta of bad economic policies, 2 wars, tax cuts and recession for a whole cycle as opposed to Bush who only had to deal with the recession for a short period of time). That would have been a closer comparative analysis than what conservatives are now portraying. I didn't do that since we deal in historical facts not hypothesis. No matter how I or anyone else has sliced this conundrum, no one has yet derived the conclusion Obama is a spendthrift i.e. 22% (adjusted for conservatives) v. 20% and Obama's 24% GDP v Reagan's 22% GDP. Every conservative who has responded to Nutting has done so based on heritage Foundation's analysis from a guy who stated there was no recession while in the middle of a recession ... yikes there may be a credibility issue but you be the judge ... the facts are available, interpret as you will but please make it reasonable
Last edited by rporter314; 05/26/12 11:51 PM. Reason: Hannity cannonization removed
ignorance is the enemy without equality there is no liberty America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,523
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Feb 2004
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Since a tax cut is approved by Congress, that money is already taken out of the calculation during budgeting. The House turned Dem in 2007, I believe the last year that a budget was actually approved was in 2008. If a budget was passed and approved with knowlege that the funding was cut by bi-partisan tax cuts, then it is the height of irresponsibility for Congress to authorize funds above and beyond what is actually available to be spent. The tax cuts were passed 6 and 4 years respectively BEFORE the Democrats took control of the House. Very much REPUBLICAN tax cuts. The revenue was cut by the Republicans. But those are facts- MA don't need no stinkin' facts!  It makes no difference when the tax cuts were enacted, as a matter of fact it worse still that after 6 years spending still hadn't been contained. The House voted for the 2001 tac suts 240 Yea, 154 Nay. The Senate voted 58 to 33, with 7 not voting (6 Dems). In 2003 the tax cuts were extended by a vote of 231 to 200 in the House and 50 to 50 in the senate. For six years those tax cuts were in effect, yet Congress refused to live within the money available. So, I repeat, the money was already out of the budget, it was not available to be spent, it makes no difference who took the money away since it was actually returned to the taxpayers. Yet, with the utmost of sour grapes and jelousy of the free ride lost, all we have head about is the Bush tax cuts. I think GW for that money, I hope that Obama doubles up on tax cuts and put more money back into the economy, and not only to the unions who do his bidding. The fact of the matter is Obama has accumulated $5T in new debt in 3.5 years. FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS! $5 to the 12th power. It assert that he has been fiscally responsible is such a bald faced lie it is impossible to take anything said about seriously. I am told that it isn't a budget defict, it is national debt? That is just a cute way to forget about last years overspending, like the kid in the high chair who pushes something over the side and thinks it just stopped existing. But eventually he thinks to look over and down and sees the bowl of Cherieos he just threw off the table and understands that what he did had consequences, even if he doesn't quite know what they are. It is an adiction to spending other people's money and a rationalization that it doesn't matter because it happened last year. But, those really are the facts Scoutgal and you are smart enough to know that $5T over three years is out of control, especially for what the reurn on that investment has been.
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
The fact of the matter is Obama has accumulated $5T in new debt in 3.5 years... $5T over three years is out of control, especially for what the reurn on that investment has been. "Obama spending binge never happened" is the name of this thread. "Obama went on a spending binge" is a popular Conservative accusation. You haven't presented any "facts" to the contrary. Many other facts have been presented that spending binges did happen, such as during the GW Bush administration. Many other facts have been presented by others demonstrating that the debt you are madly trying to pin on Obama (as though no one else exists, and as though no other dynamics are at work other than the government spending money) is caused by mostly by the Bush tax cuts (reduced revenue) and a very poor economy (more reduced revenue). Those tax cuts did not stimulate the economy, that's a fact. Many other facts have been presented that demonstrate that a President can't really even go on a spending spree, without persuading Congress to put up the money. Compared to other Presidents, Obama hasn't really done much in the way of Congressional persuasion. It has become painfully obvious that you are determined to finger President Obama for causing our economic troubles out of all reason, and you seem to be supporting the Big Lie that Obama went on a spending binge (the subject of this thread, in case you forgot). I believe that you consider such behaviour to be moral and acceptable, because "politics is a dirty game" (you have said so, in fact). I will take this moment to point out that the dirt part of the game is perpetrated by the dirty bastards who think that it is an acceptable thing to do. I know some politicians who don't do that, Democrats and Republicans. Why do you do it?
You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete. R. Buckminster Fuller
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