Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Morality & Society THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS

Guns are the greatest invention of mankind, bar none. They are the final triumph of the intellect over the brawn, the final equalizer of man, and they look pretty durn cool.



There are many dangerous things out there – criminals, psychos, baboons, wild boars, Kennedys, etc. – and one is a fool not to defend themselves. Hell, I’d say a woman living alone without a gun is clinically insane. And the second amendment is the only amendment we really need; everyone will always respect your rights if you have a gun pointed at them. Thus, anyone against guns is either evil or stupid or both and is deserving of a punch’n.

Now, some people may think I would have softened my stance on firearms after I was shot by a chimpanzee, but I’m not going to selfishly turn against a fundamental right because of one accident (and, to be clear, the accident was the chimp getting hold of a loaded gun; he shot me on purpose and I appropriately sought vengeance). So on guns, put me down as fer it.

chimps with guns the video

Chimps with guns

Keyboard splatter Tat.

well I'm going to step right in here...very carefully... amongst all the...umm...splatter and stuff
and post a sirus one I've been working on.


Yes. Also being at the top of the food chain, we owe something back (imho) in the way of compassion and caring to the universe that has served us so well. Being cruel to animals and those lesser than us is.....cruel. It is out of sorts with the space we share with them.

Now all that said.
I am struck by this 'debate' about animal rights and have been wondering why it is making me a little cranky.
I cleaned a house today where a doe and her 3 (yes 3!) fawns, dallied about in the backyard the whole entire time I was there. It was beautiful to see. I can't IMAGINE someone wanting to shoot and eat her.
I personally kill almost no insect or animal for any reason.
However, I don't want to get sidetracked into people's rights (or not) to do that because I am trying to make a different point.

At least half this country doesn't care (judging by how they vote) if some HUMANS don't have rights at all.
20,000 die each year for lack of health care, torture is ok, bombing 30 people to kill 2 terrorists is just fine.
Collateral damage? Who's gives a f*ck?

I'm not sure debating animal rights isn't jumping a rung. Shouldn't we get the 'top of the food chain' straightened out first?
At the same time.....isn't abusing animals often a precursor to some really really nasty stuff? Jeffery Dahmer comes to mind.

Did somebody suggest that we might actually be a rung below animals? not quite Naomi <grin>?

We owe the world and it's lesser life forms absolutely nothing. The Almighty has created and given to us the entire world and all it contains for our sustenance and enjoyment.

TAT is dead on--Guns are the ultimate proof of our nearly divine state, proof that the Almighty loves us above all other things in His creation.

Re: Top of the food chain

This is relative, as our, dangerous to rodents and birds, Calico learned yet again as a red fox chased her from the woods to the cat door. It was very close, and a dreadful noise, but I have seen been assured that foxes dont kill cats, and that Trudy must have gotten too close to her den. (great, there are going to be a family of foxes to deal with)

I am starting to instill this awareness into son of Tat, who will be moving to the West coast, escorted and introduced to the West by me on a ROAD TRIP! He needs to start understanding about not being the top of the food chain, rather than learning the hard way.

When young he used to enjoy chaseing birds, because they always ran or flew away. One day when he was 2-3 yrs we went to a park where there were ducks, geese, and swans. Clearly all fit nicely into the bird category and thus were fair game. I, with great interest and anticipation, watched him closing on them until one turned on him and gave him a most impressive full wingspread aggressive display.


The look on his face was priceless when he learned that all birds dont run , but I would rather he learn about cougars and griz etc in a less direct way.

TAT

The Almighty works in mysterious ways His/Her wonders to perform.
One can only surmise about why He/She waited so long to provide guns for Creation??


Maybe it would have messed with the survival of the fittest, or perhaps personkind had some lessons that needed learning before reaching dominion over all things.

TAT

Not really. It would be circular if he said that man was a part of nature, had a nature, and thus had natural rights. Notice the unexamined nature of that statement.:-) Man's natural rights were a result of analysis of Man's nature, and that is what Rothbard was saying. Surely from Aristotle to the modern philosopher, the study of man's nature has been a prime method of learning about ourselves and our place in the world?


Agreed. And a point I have occassionally made. But, do you agree that Man has natural Rights? Do you agree that they are negative Rights? Do you think animals have the same or similar rights?
Yours,
Issodhos

You are incorrect. I had to google the name to find out who you were referring to and to see what he was charged with doing. This thread has no connection to his story. As to libertarians -- some people are quick to label someone as such without really knowing what libertarianism is, and others happily claim to be a libertarian but are without a clue as to what libertarianism is. Labels -- tricky things, wot!:-)


Upon what do you base this "responsibility", boogieman?
Yours,
Issodhos

So far, we are in agreement, Mellowicious.


Actually, the Declaration of Independence made no such distinction. Doesn't really matter because the Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document, and my use of portions of it in my example was because it is relatively familiar wording and those portions I used were reflective of the pre-existing philosophy on natural Rights. You do touch on a good point in using the word, "recognized", though. Though one may be prevented from exercising one's Rights, they remain unalienable. And that is, I think, an extremely important though little understood truth concerning Rights.


Piffle. Not even a good try, Mellowicious.
Yours,
Issodhos

Show a little more patience and a little less antagonism and perhaps we will get there.;-)
Yours,
Issodhos