Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Constitutional Issues Smoking in Public and Whose Rights are they?

Since this has once again come up on another thread, I figure it was ripe for another look.

Many cities and some states now outlaw smoking legal cigarettes in a variety of places. California seems to lead the way on this, having passed laws:

*outlawing smoking in any public facility, statewide that includes any government building [*]Many cities outlaw smoking in any building, period, other than a person's own home or business with no emplyees
*Nearly all beaches outlaw smoking
*Increasingly smoking is not allowed in public parks
*Some cities outlaw smoking if it escapes from one private space to another, such as apartments
*there is no smoking in any bar or restaurant, some cities even outlaw smoking in outdoor restaurant spaces


Some opponents contend that this violates property rights. Of course, there is no such thing as property rights, only rights of people regarding property. The Constitutions says:
The courts have routinely held that reasonable regulation of private property is not a "taking" for purposes of the Constitution.

OK, have a go.

I would first make two suggestions, Phil. Present a precise premise so that there is no confusion as to what is to be argued. As it is, I am not quite sure what it is that you are claiming.

Secondly, consider moving the thread to a place other than "Constitutional Issues" since the issue is not property and the Constitution, but rather individual (natural, if you prefer) Rights in regard to private property.

The second would be nice, but not a "deal-breaker". The first, however, really seems to be a necessity to me.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos

If you don't like this subject, you are free to propose your own, Issodhos. I like ambiguity, it is my friend.

There is one single place above all where I would like to ban cigarettes: Hanging out a moving car window.

San Diego County is always in great danger from wildfires, especially around this time of year. Many of our big fires have been tracked back to a single cigarette butt on the side of a road. I live in a posted high-danger fire zone, so it is actually illegal to even smoke outside in my neighborhood. But I still see drivers hanging a lit smoke out the window, so they don't get their ash trays dirty. Invariably, those drivers just toss the still-lit butt when they are finished.

I wonder if a $1 per cigarette refundable deposit would encourage them to collect their butts in the ash tray?

I suppose that I have finally moved to the point where I am embracing my anarchist leanings more and more. That said, I believe the laws outlined above are excessive. I will say now that I still smoke. I do not throw my butts out, I strip them and throw them away. I do not smoke in the presence of my children. I do not smoke in places that are crowded with people simply out of respect for those who do not smoke. I smoke outside and that's OK with me. I believe restaurants and bars should make those decisions, not the state. Ultimately, the customers will pressure the owners one way or another. I believe that people should be personally responsible and respect individuals and their rights. You have a right to breathe clean air and I will not infringe on that. I have a right to smoke, even if I know that it's a really bad health risk. I am addicted, OK? But what I am really getting at is that society must begin to wake up to the fact that no matter how many laws the state creates, it does not legislate common sense nor common courtesies. At some point we have to begin to draw and line and be personally responsible. If you smoke, don't let it infringe on others. If you don't, then allow those that do the space to do so without infringing on their right to make bad choices, as long as those choices don't infringe on you.

I popped in this morning to get my messages and see more laws being discussed to control the habits and actions of Americans. This is not a forum in which I wish to play. There seems to be a movement here to make everybody the same. Why even bother with the subject of individual freedoms?

I can't really fault any of you as this is the way America has been directed for years. Every possible choice that we make, must be controlled from our choice of automobiles to what we inhale, ingest, inject and who knows what is next.

My focus is not on government (state or federal) laws; but on freedoms. I have never lived in fear of others and what their habits could do to me. Read 1984 again and see what the hell you all are doing to this civilization.

Every time a group of people get together on a forum like this, the do-gooders and their prohibitions soon enter. I have spent years trying to find out why we all must live exactly alike from the air we breathe to where and with whom we live. Who put that ridiculous model of perfection into the heads of the masses?

America is in a terrible fix and we are discussing people smoking. I guess we have to, since some still smoke. It is breaking the pattern of control. I left here years ago because the whole damn forum had turned into controlling religious wackos. This one size fits all seems to be part of our culture.

It upsets me as an indivudual, that Reader Rant is probably going to continue until we find the perfect culture based on state laws. Most of the forums have their models of how to post, how to think with a cast of characters smashing anyone who breaks the mold.

It is very clear that RR is not for individual freedoms and certainly not for anyone who speaks for Capitalism.

Back in the heyday of tobacco, when we smoked in airplanes, theaters, restaurants, grocery stores, banks, and even hospitals, when non smokers were obliged to keep ashtrays on hand for their smoking friends and the lingering stench of tobacco was everywhere, no one seemed to pay it much attention. Then there came a revolution of sorts, non smokers found the courage to tell smokers it WASN'T alright to light up in their living rooms, many provided a "smoking porch" where ashtrays were placed and smokers could gather to feed their habit, always leaving behind those little bowls of reeking excrement for the host or hostess to clean up later. Soon, in the homes of non smokers even the smoking porch was abolished and smokers were sent out of doors to enjoy their habit. Now, said host or hostess, walks out the next day to admire a rosebush or pull the odd weed out of the landscaping and finds little pigeon tampons littering the lawn.
Enough! thinks the non smoker, and the smokers names are deleted from future guest lists. Non smokers, far outnumbering smokers, began to realize that having made inroads in their personal space it might be possible to avoid tobacco smoke wafting up their nostrils as they attempted to enjoy an expensive meal at a fine restaurant or breath the noxious exhalations of drug addicts anywhere else for that matter. The heyday of tobacco is over, the spitoons are gone and the ashtrays are on the way out. Smokers have no rights nor do we deserve any.

Smoking has been banned in the workplace in ireland since

March 2003 (i think its been that long)

its a matter of the govt legislating for smokers infringing other peoples rights not to be harmed by their fellows. smoking by its nature is harmful to those not engaging in it but in the vicinity.

simple as that

this extends to all offices, bars restuarants - some hotels (some still have smoking rooms). smoking areas are acceptable but they have to be 50% open.

seeing as the percentage of smokers in the population is around 30%, its kind of hard to argue with it. and IM a smoker.

pubs* and especially resturants have become much more pleasant places to go.


* initially they discovered that the smoke neatly covered the smells of farts, BO, stale beer and urine from the toilets

This is one of those where you (the generic 'you') have the right to do as you like, so long as you don't disturb others. Just as you have the right to play music at 2AM (I often do) -- but if it's so loud it wakes up the neighbors, expect a police officer knocking on the door.

I have no problem with smokers; I just have a problem with them smoking around me. As with many ex-smokers, I'm hyper-sensitive to the smell - for example, I can smell a lit cigarette in a car that drives by me, or is in the next lane stopped at a stop light. That doesn't mean I want to outlaw smoking in cars.

I live in a multi-story apartment building. All the tenants have decks. Several times in the evening I've had to come inside because the smoke from lower balconies rises straight to mine. Have I tried to ban the smokers from smoking outdoors? No. Does it affect my ability to enjoy my home? Yes. Would I be happier if I didn't have to deal with smoke at home? Yes.

It's not a simple yes/no deal. I'm not going to hassle a smoker - I've been there. But smoking is not a right. It's a public hazard. Businesses are regulated against hazards like fire risk, dirt/disease, overcrowding, etc. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't have a problem with smoking bans, for the same reason.

In a sidenote, since several of us were furiously typing at once,
Sandy, tobacco should be legal, but it's use shouldn't be allowed to infringe on the rights of or endanger the health of others, marijuana should also be legal with the same limitations.
2wins, yes, the laws are excessive, but reflect a social movement rather than a government attempt to regulate personal freedoms. You have a legal right to use tobacco, you do it with consideration (as do I) and with the knowledge that it is dangerous to yourself and offensive to others. You may have the right to also smear yourself with s*** and walk into any establishment but the common sense of the proprietors and other customers will find you soon out on your ear. Though it may have occurred, I haven't heard of any establishment having to close it's doors because of the ban on smoking and possibly most proprietors are happy to be rid of it. Smoking in bars that don't serve food, in my opinion should be allowed, what right has one group of chemical infusers to reflect on the chemicals infused by others? Marijuana should also be allowed in these places as should perhaps nitrous oxide, and possibly cocaine. Since heroin users generally barf after injecting we will relegate them to the alleys or parking lots.