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Originally Posted by california rick
Originally Posted by AustinRanter
If I'm not wrong, there's like 4 women on the jury...and 2 men. Think about it...and talk amongst yourselves.
Indeed you are wrong, friend. All women. smile

OMG, don't tell me that Rick...

Oh well, there's a first time for everything. wink

Yeah...Ms Spaghetti got me straightened out.

Something tells me that an all woman jury...is a bit on the scary side for George. Even 4 and 2...might be, too.


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We can only hope that six women ( I know! Not twelve? Hmm ) can bring justice to this wrong of a murdered teenager by simply walking home from the store while black by a profiler hell-bent on making sure this "[censored] didn't away" because "they always get away."


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If so, so what
i think the way they look at something like this is "state of mind"

in this case his state of mind was "nigers were getting away with it" or something to that effect. If he was a Fox "newscaster" presenting some "factual" evidence and said that in a monotone voice, no one would have thought anything about it, but instead Z was a man with purpose and a gun. Whether his intention was to kill someone, i don't guess anyone but he will know, but what is known is, he stalked a person with the mindset that this niger will not get away with it, even after warned by police not pursue.

stupid people always seem to put themselves in "situations" which have unintended consequences. Does it mean we should allow stupid people to do whatever they want to do without responsibility for their actions? I think the basic question is, was Z defending himself in a life threatening situation? If, yes, then probably nothing more can be said about it, but if no, then he is certainly responsible for at least manslaughter up to some designation of murder.



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Originally Posted by california rick
The judge clearly wants Zimmerman to fry - as do most followers of this nationally sensationalized case. smile

A bit of knowledge of criminal procedure would come in handy. Pretty much any defendant convicted of a crime of this nature will, at some point in their incarceration, raise the appeal strategy of poor legal advice which led to poor decisions by the defendant which led to the conviction.

Indeed, in this case I would bet that defendant and his attorneys already have explored that option in deciding whether he should or should not testify.

1. don't testify and don't risk being cross-examined; if you are acquited all is great with the world
2. if you don't testify and are convicted, we will appeal on every grounds we can think of and when those are all exhausted, you can fire us and hire a new attorney who will argue we did not properly advise you on this point and you therefore should get a new trial.

the trial judge is pretty sharp and her questions, and insistence on talking directly to the defendant and NOT his attorneys will eliminate or seriously diminsh that appeal strategy. Such inquiries from the trial judge are in fact rather common in court rooms with competent and well informed judges.

Defendant's attorneys are objecting PRECISELY BECAUSE they want to preserve the inadequate advice of counsel claim down the road. The "testiness" is ALL directed on the attorney who keeps asserting the right (non-existant) to tell the judge how to run the trial.


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Originally Posted by loganrbt
Originally Posted by california rick
The judge clearly wants Zimmerman to fry - as do most followers of this nationally sensationalized case. smile

A bit of knowledge of criminal procedure would come in handy. Pretty much any defendant convicted of a crime of this nature will, at some point in their incarceration, raise the appeal strategy of poor legal advice which led to poor decisions by the defendant which led to the conviction.

Indeed, in this case I would bet that defendant and his attorneys already have explored that option in deciding whether he should or should not testify.

1. don't testify and don't risk being cross-examined; if you are acquited all is great with the world
2. if you don't testify and are convicted, we will appeal on every grounds we can think of and when those are all exhausted, you can fire us and hire a new attorney who will argue we did not properly advise you on this point and you therefore should get a new trial.

the trial judge is pretty sharp and her questions, and insistence on talking directly to the defendant and NOT his attorneys will eliminate or seriously diminsh that appeal strategy. Such inquiries from the trial judge are in fact rather common in court rooms with competent and well informed judges.

Defendant's attorneys are objecting PRECISELY BECAUSE they want to preserve the inadequate advice of counsel claim down the road. The "testiness" is ALL directed on the attorney who keeps asserting the right (non-existant) to tell the judge how to run the trial.
thank you. we need more explanation such as this these days, lest we all froth at the mouth and begin to call for so and so's head on a pike. that seems to be the fox news approach on one side, and nbc/cnn on the other. reasoned explanations are in short supply.


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Originally Posted by loganrbt
2. if you don't testify and are convicted, we will appeal on every grounds we can think of and when those are all exhausted, you can fire us and hire a new attorney who will argue we did not properly advise you on this point and you therefore should get a new trial.

The irony of ironies would be to have that scenario play out exactly as you have written and then have the new attorneys advise Zimmerman not to testify. That would be just too delicious for words.


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“Bernie couldn’t be more totally wrong,” said Sliwa. “He needs to chase some squirrels in the park. This has nothing at all to do with him, nothing in common.

“Bernie Goetz is Charles Bronson in Death Wish,” said Sliwa. “He had enough, and Darrell Cabey represented every guy who had tried to mug him before. George Zimmerman is Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver. He’s a nut. He’s a complete nut job who thinks he’s on a ‘mission,’ and this young black man ended up on his radar screen, and then dead.

“Because I deal with the wannabes who want to join the Guardian Angels, I see right away what this guy Zimmerman is: a self-appointed guardian."

---Curtis Sliwa

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I wanted to address Issodhos's original query, as to what is up with the judge. I think firm would be an appropriate term. Here's what I think was going on, and I don't think there was any bias involved: She is trying to keep the trial on course, and the defense attorneys were delaying disclosure of their intent. She was just trying to impress upon them and Zimmerman that she was in charge, and that they could not delay forever making a decision. She was not wrong in addressing Zimmerman directly, as it was outside of the jury's hearing, and there are some times where the court, legitimately, wants to hear directly from the defendant. The defense attorneys can object, but it was not improper, and certainly will not be an (legitimate) issue on appeal. She was very careful to emphasize that he had the right to testify or not, but she needed to know whether the trial was going to go into the next week or not. Remember, there is a sequestered jury. It was all about administering the court proceedings, not about the substance of the trial.


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Originally Posted by Jeffery J. Haas
“Bernie couldn’t be more totally wrong,” said Sliwa.
Anyone who believes GZ is guilty is wrong, according to RWNJs. Secondly, the RWNJs are getting on Greta Van Susteren for even having Bernie on her panel.

They don't want to hear anything about GZ being a racist profiling killer.

Greta is in the thick of this trial because a)she works for a conservative cable news channel, and b)she's about to be kicked to the curb by Roger Ailes and she's trying to appeal his decision by doing so in public. She hopes her fanbase/bloggers will go to bat for her. They will. She gives them a national forum to spout their racism.


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Originally Posted by california rick
They don't want to hear anything about GZ being a racist profiling killer.

Quote
In an open letter on March 15, 2012, Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman, defended his son against allegations that his actions were racially motivated, stating that Zimmerman was Hispanic, was raised in a multiracial family, and "would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever," saying that the portrayal of his son as a racist "could not be further from the truth." According to his family, some of Zimmerman's relatives are black.[54] Zimmerman's former lawyer Craig Sonner stated that Zimmerman is not a racist, and that he had mentored black youths in the past.[301] Joe Oliver, a former television news reporter who is acquainted with Zimmerman,[302] noted "I'm a black male and all that I know is that George has never given me any reason whatsoever to believe he has anything against people of color."[303]

In early April, an anonymous letter to the NAACP, which was signed "A Concerned Zimmerman Family Member," said Zimmerman had been one of the few to take any action to protest the 2010 beating of Sherman Ware, a black homeless man, by the son of a Sanford police officer. Zimmerman reportedly distributed fliers in the black community trying to get others involved too, and helped organize a January 8, 2011, Sanford City Hall community forum to protest the incident.[304] Zimmerman's father confirmed his son's efforts on Ware's behalf.[305]

In May, the Miami Herald secured an audiotape of the January 8, 2011, Sanford City Hall community forum. On the audiotape, Zimmerman was heard criticizing the conduct of the Sanford Police Department in the Ware case.
(emphasis added) LINK
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Last edited by issodhos; 07/14/13 02:46 AM. Reason: emphasis added

"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos
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