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Irked #27524 08/26/07 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Irked
Addressing an article so full of obvious distortions and outright slander of great Americans like Vice President Richard (Dick) Cheney and Sect. Donald Rumsfeld does nothing but lend legitimacy to the author and I shall not be drawn into any such activity.
Well I don't know about those slanderous distortions, but the allegations against Romney are bound to come out in the Presidential primary campaign. The Librul Media will be all over them, eh?


Steve
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to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

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Phil Hoskins #27584 08/26/07 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil Hoskins
Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted by Tatuma
If Cheney has his way with Iran, then the Cheney, "blind" trusts, will still have a lot of contract work to do in Iran. They will be very busy rebuilding the oil infrastructure, that accidentely got damaged eliminating the nookliar threat.

TAT

Cheney and Romney links to Iran
The inaccuracies, half truths and outright lies in the article Tatuma posted a link to are too numerous to refute. But then when anything negative, whether true or not, about the Bush administration, V.P. Cheney's connection to Halliburton or a prominent Republican can be published you can be sure Tatuma will post it.


I am curious and would appreciate you or someone pointing out the misstatements in that article.
Romney sold millions in investments to avoid conflict, trustee says
Quote
Among the investments sold by trustee R. Bradford Malt were holdings in companies known to have interests with Iran, including French and Italian oil companies.
<SNIP>
The 47-page federal report was something of a revelation for Romney as well.

Forced to open his blind trust, the Romneys -- and the world -- discovered precisely which stocks, bonds and mutual funds they own.

Among them: $2.5 million to $8 million in AB Svensk Exportkredit, a Swedish export credit corporation; and $1 million to $5 million in Eksportfinans ASA, a Norwegian financing corporation, and $100,000 to $250,000 in Russian energy giant Gazprom.

Ann Romney's trust reported various Goldman Sachs investments of more than $1 million (spousal assets can be reported in less precise figures). Romney's trust has $3.5 million to $16 million in Goldman Sachs investments.
<SNIP

Other sales, besides the Iran-related stocks, also helped avoid potential political embarrassment for Romney.

Among them were investments in gaming companies, including Ameristar Casinos and Harrahs Entertainment. Romney has been eager to present himself as the most socially conservative candidate in the field, decrying what he has said is the debasement of the culture.

Romney's blind trust also got rid of between $100,000 and $250,000 in stock in Schlumberger Ltd., the oilfield services company that does business in Sudan.
The source for these quotes is an article from CNN.com.


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Tatuma #27598 08/26/07 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatuma
If Cheney has his way with Iran, then the Cheney, "blind" trusts, will still have a lot of contract work to do in Iran. They will be very busy rebuilding the oil infrastructure, that accidentely got damaged eliminating the nookliar threat.

TAT

Cheney and Romney links to Iran
Until I questioned this article it was accepted and believed. But my statement that it contained lies was questioned right away. Why are articles that are critical of Republicans automatically accepted? Yet a statement that the article is wrong has to be proved?


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Quote
The source for these quotes is an article from CNN.com.



OK why are you quoting an article with facts which are not in the original article?



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rporter314 #27615 08/26/07 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
Quote
The source for these quotes is an article from CNN.com.



OK why are you quoting an article with facts which are not in the original article?
To prove that the facts in the original article are not true.


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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Originally Posted by Tatuma
If Cheney has his way with Iran, then the Cheney, "blind" trusts, will still have a lot of contract work to do in Iran. They will be very busy rebuilding the oil infrastructure, that accidentely got damaged eliminating the nookliar threat.

TAT

Cheney and Romney links to Iran
Until I questioned this article it was accepted and believed. But my statement that it contained lies was questioned right away. Why are articles that are critical of Republicans automatically accepted? Yet a statement that the article is wrong has to be proved?


Senator I think you have jumped to a conclusion that is unwarranted. When I read the original article quoted by Tat it seemed to be documented but then I read your statement disputing those "facts." I asked you for support because a mere statement that something is wrong, etc., seemed to me to need support, just as the original article purported to support its claims.

I don't see that as an example of what you call "Why are articles that are critical of Republicans automatically accepted? Yet a statement that the article is wrong has to be proved? "


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Quote
To prove that the facts in the original article are not true.


What you have done has proved nothing, so I guess I'll do some homework for you.

So let's start chronologically with an article linked in Tatuma's article, then proceed with Tat's article and move on to a more recent article.

February 22, 2007 Company's links to Iran undercut Romney's call for divestment

From this source we have the following

Quote
Romney joined Boston-based Bain & Co., a management consulting firm, in 1978 and worked there until 1984. He was CEO of Bain Capital, a venture capital firm, from 1984 to 1999, despite a two-year return as Bain & Co.'s chief executive officer from 1991 to 1992.

and
Quote
Fehrnstrom, meanwhile, noted Romney has not worked at Bain Capital since 1999, when he relinquished his ownership stake in the firm. He subsequently turned over his investments to a blind trust managed by a Boston law firm.

and
Quote
Bain & Co. Italy, described in company literature as "the Italian branch of Bain & Co.," received a $2.3 million contract from the National Iranian Oil Co., in September 2004. Its task was to develop a master plan so NIOC — the state oil company of Iran — could become one of the world's top oil companies, according to Iranian and U.S. news accounts of the deal.


All of which was quoted in Tat's article. But what's important is the timeline of employment and the facts Romney turned all investment over to a blind trust (not known when yet but there's more)and what that blind trust invested in and what his former employer did.

Thus we know Romney did not work for Bain after 1999. Romney put all investments in blind trust at some point. And Bain and subsidiaries invested in companies which had dealings with Iran.

Now from previously sited (Tat's)source (Romney, Cheney in Deep with Iran Investments) dated February 26, 2007, just a few days after first article.

We have "But as it turns out, it is Mitt Romney's former employer with the ties to Tehran."

The author of the article goes on to a wholesale quote from the previous article which I have included above. So is the statement above false in any way? Nope, Romney's former employer according to first article did indeed have ties with companies doing business in Iran. Stay with me now.

Can we get any corroboration of any of these facts? A trustee says we can. In an article dated 8/13/2007 we learn of the following information.

Quote
Malt is a Boston-based lawyer with the national law firm of Ropes & Gray and has been trustee for the Romney blind trusts since Romney became governor of Massachusetts in January 2003.


So now we know who, Malt from Ropes & Gray, guided the blind trusts and when (2003) this particular one started.

Quote
Among the investments sold by trustee R. Bradford Malt were holdings in companies known to have interests with Iran, including French and Italian oil companies.

and
Quote
He specifically singled out blind trust investments with the Italian-based Eni SpA and the French Total, oil companies that have done business in Iran. Each was sold for between $15,000 and $50,000.

and
Quote
Romney's blind trust also got rid of between $100,000 and $250,000 in stock in Schlumberger Ltd., the oilfield services company that does business in Sudan.


[I included Schlumberger as it is known at least one subsidiary had done business in Iran, Iraq, and Libya after embargoes.]

Thus we now know based on statements made by trustee of Romney's blind trust that the investment company did indeed make investments in companies which did business in Iran. We only know when those assets were sold not when they were bought. We do know that Bain & Co had connections with Iran in 2004 and 2005 based on above articles.

I have only dealt with the Romney part of the article as that is what you objected to. The statement of fact from Tat's source was Romney's former employer had ties to Iran. That statement in and of itself is true and Bain & Co admits it.

So which fact is a lie?


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Originally Posted by Senator Hatrack
Yet a statement that the article is wrong has to be proved?
Maybe I missed something. What in the article have you shown to be wrong?


Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)

rporter314 #27670 08/26/07 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rporter314
Quote
The source for these quotes is an article from CNN.com.



OK why are you quoting an article with facts which are not in the original article?
Did you read the CNN article? The facts in the CNN article refute what was in the original article. An article that is purposely ambiguous in an attempt create guilt by association.


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I am struggling to figure the meanderings of this thread out. Am I right to conclude that prior to turning his assets over to a blind trust that later sold assets in conflict with his public positions, that Romney in fact bought those assets himself?



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