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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Dec 2005
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OP
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For those arguing the 'best interests of the child", I ask would you be willing to submit custody of your own children to that simple test? I mean, if Madonna said, hey I will raise your child in luxury with the finest education, etc., should that give her custody if she can show that you work too many hours to spend much time with him or her? So the Conservative philosophy is that we should all sell our children to the highest bidder?
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Joined: Mar 2007
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...
My expertise is based both on years of observation, added to my complete accuracy in the prediction I have made here regarding exactly who Conservatives will declare themselves on this issue: They will universally side with whatever opinion is necessary to maximize the Cuban-American/Religious Right vote in the Florida 2008 elections. Just as they did in the cases of Teri Schiavo and Elian Gonzalez. Correlation is not causation, and the fallacy of false correlation is exactly what you are wading in right now. I gave my reasons for leaving the child where she is, none of which have to do with Cuba but only with the apparent lack of interest by the father. Were the mother to want her daughter back and to return to Cuba, I'd tend to lean in her direction. You seem to be confused as to who are conservatives (philosophically so), and those who are Conservatives (affiliationally so to a politcal party). I'm conservative, but unless you can produce a copy of a membership card in the Conservative Party bearing my name, I'd be most appreciative of you not deliberately misrrepresenting me - especially since you have little grounds for forming an extended, intelligent opinion of what I believe.
Life should be led like a cavalry charge - Theodore Roosevelt
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And since when does the GOP have any real association with genuine conservative philosophy? It does when the republican National Committee can disregard everything that Conservatives declare in odd-numbered years, knowing full well that The Party can count on 100% Conservative loyalty in even-numbered (election) years. Same error as above - lack of understanding as to who is conservative and who is "Conservative". Genuinely conservative persons such as myself - paleoconservative, classic conservative, old-style conservative, etc. - have nothing in common with the GOP and the "Conservatives" who you are struggling so hard to equate as being my beau ideale. Excellent smoke-screen though.
Life should be led like a cavalry charge - Theodore Roosevelt
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especially since you have little grounds for forming an extended, intelligent opinion of what I believe. I can only surmise what you believe from your statements here. And none of my posts make any mention as to what those who call themselves "Conservative" actually believe. What I do post about is what Conservatives actually do. And what they do is mold their opinions and actions to whatever it takes to maximize the electoral victories of the Republican party: No matter what the winning Republican office holders actually do once in office. In this case, in order to retain the White House in 2008, the Republcan presidential candidate must carry the Cuban-American vote in Florida. In order to do that the child in question here must be kept with the borders of the United States, no matter what. And, no matter what her father says or does now, or what her mother might do or say in the future, that is exactly what every single "Conservative", without exception, will do.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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enthusiast
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Same error as above - lack of understanding as to who is conservative and who is "Conservative". Genuinely conservative persons such as myself - paleoconservative, classic conservative, old-style conservative, etc. - have nothing in common with the GOP and the "Conservatives" who you are struggling so hard to equate as being my beau ideale. Please review my post. 2007 is an odd-numbered year. Therefore Conservatives, such as George Will, are permitted to voice comments that give the appearance of independence. However. Next year is an even-numbered year, and a Presidential election year as well. Note in my previous post that the Cuban-American vote is essential for a Republican candidate to be George W. Bush's successor. Not one single Conservative, here or anywhere else, will actually take any "Conservative" action that would in the slightest risk that outcome. I stand by my prediction as to the actions and public statements (not core beliefs) of all Conservatives, now and in the future. Confirmation will come not from how I am excoriated now, but in how I am vindicated later.
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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We have no idea of the circumstances under which the child was conceived (thank God), no idea why the parents didn't marry. Actually, Julia, we do know that little salacious detail. The child's father was married to another woman at the time, and they were separated. Subsequent to conceiving the girl, the father reunited with his wife. And my point is that we have no idea why there was no contact. Agreed. All we really know is that there was in fact no contact. The child does not know this man, who calls himself her father. She knows her foster father as her father. Ten thousand legitimate reasons for not having been in her life do not change that. I mean, if Madonna said, hey I will raise your child in luxury with the finest education, etc., should that give her custody if she can show that you work too many hours to spend much time with him or her? An interesting example you picked there, Phil. I'm sure you know about Madonna's African child? And the child's biological father? But I would offer this as a more generic answer: if my child called some other man "Daddy" and couldn't pick me out of a lineup, I wouldn't be fighting for custody.
Steve Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.
(Native American prayer)
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We have no idea of the circumstances under which the child was conceived (thank God), no idea why the parents didn't marry. Actually, Julia, we do know that little salacious detail. The child's father was married to another woman at the time, and they were separated. Subsequent to conceiving the girl, the father reunited with his wife. Actually, no, Steve, according to the second link you provided: He is currently in Miami with his wife, Yanara Alvarez, and their 6-year-old daughter. Izquierdo fathered the child at the center of the dispute during a split with Alvarez, with whom he later married, he said. Again, my point here is not to say that you're wrong; for all I know you might be right. But your description of a married man who fathered a child in an affair, is very different from the one the Olympian tells. And one is more detrimental than the other.
Julia
A 45’s quicker than 409
Betty’s cleaning’ house for the very last time
Betty’s bein’ bad
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
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Administrator Bionic Scribe
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People people people.
No more "this is a republican or conservative" thing nor "no it isn't" stuff, ok?
Moderator Phil
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul
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Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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But your description of a married man who fathered a child in an affair, is very different from the one the Olympian tells. And one is more detrimental than the other. Yes, that's true, Julia. It is very different. And I did misread the point you quoted. Apparently he was merely in a committed relationship with the woman he later married. I understand the difference very well, considering the number of committed relationships I've been in! I stand by my description of this detail as being "salacious". Here's an interesting article in the Miami Herald that addresses the legal points that Phil was making about the fact of being the birth parent carrying a great deal of weight in the dispute. ''With everything you have, even if you pull a rabbit out of a hat, I just don't see how'' the state can prove Izquierdo intended to abandon his daughter, the judge told Department of Children and Families attorney Rebecca Kapusta.
''With everything I have seen so far, you do not have abandonment. I am telling you: I don't see it. It doesn't rise to what the courts need,'' Cohen said. ``I don't think you meet the legal standard.'' I think the article clearly spells out the legal standing the father has despite his lacking any sort of relationship with the child. For months, DCF attorneys, a court-appointed guardian and two court-appointed therapists have dissected in minute detail a series of visits between Izquierdo and his daughter. The two therapists, Miguel Firpi and Julio Vigil, have warned several times that the girl has failed to attach to her father.
She now lives with Joe and Maria Cubas, the Coral Gables foster family that has cared for her the past 18 months. Joe Cubas has told Cohen he and his wife wish to raise the girl, a position DCF supports.
Firpi said the girl cried during much of a visit last week because Izquierdo refused to allow her to phone Cubas. Firpi said the girl also complained that Izquierdo used an ugly word to describe Cubas.
The state says the youngster enjoys an extremely good bond with the Cubas family. sheds light on the mother's position: Perez says she regrets ever leaving the small town of Cabaiguan. There, she said, her children were happy.
''I know it goes wonderfully for some people, but I'm very disenchanted in this country,'' said Perez, who arrived with the children in December 2005 along with a new husband, Jesus Melendres -- who she says abandoned her soon after landing at Miami International Airport. As a jilted newlywed, the former pharmacy worker's life soon began to unravel.
''My experience here has been abysmal. My two children and I experienced nothing but hard times,'' said Perez. She left Miami for a time to try and rebuild her life in Houston, where friends say she was frequently despondent and often neglectful of her children. She eventually returned to Miami.
''One horrible night, I decided that my kids would be better off without me and did something stupid,'' she said. ``I'm not crazy. I have been depressed and tense and had many sleepless nights, but I'm fine.''
Steve Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.
(Native American prayer)
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Joined: Dec 2005
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enthusiast
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No more "this is a republican or conservative" thing nor "no it isn't" stuff, ok? Why? My initial point when I started this thread was specifically not about how "good" a father the girl's biological father was, but that I could, with 100% accuracy, predict the opinions that we would hear from Conservatives and Family Values types based solely on their desire to garner the Cuban-American vote in the 2008 Presidential Elections.
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