Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues The Legal Forum Let's check in on the cattle abusers, deadbeat grazers, wildlife squatter Bundys

In the United States, and all its constituent jurisdictions, there is a justice system that follows certain specific precepts: right to a trial by peers, right to counsel, proof behind a reasonable doubt, and a presumption of innocence. There are, of course, flaws and errors, and abuses within that system, and I have spent a good deal of my career addressing them on behalf of clients. But, in the main, the system works.

In the Hammond cases, those mechanisms were in play and apparently worked well. The prosecution was not unreasonable, offered plea deals, dismissed charges, and argued for the minimum sentence. At the end, the jury determined that the alleged crimes occurred, and did not believe the Hammonds' claims. That is how the process is supposed to work.

The Bundys and their co-conspirators decided that their view of how things should be prevailed over the existing system and the rights of anyone who disagrees. It really boils down to an "entitlement" worldview. They believe they are entitled to deference for their views, even if they are not held by a majority, their neighbors, or are consistent with the law, and even if they are actively in conflict with the interests of those neighbors.

These SovCit idiots were also egged on by W. Cleon Skousen's annotated "pocket Constitution."

Skousen, who once accused President Dwight D. Eisenhower of being a Soviet agent and whom Time magazine once labeled an “exemplar of the right-wing ultras,” pairs the original Constitutional text with quotes from Founding Fathers about the necessity of religion in governance - so you know that right-wing nuttery was at the heart of the occupation as well.

This is slightly dated but, interesting.......

Link

All of the senior bird sanctuary take-over yahoos are Mormon (Bundys, Finicum, Cox) and I believe it is about the State of Deseret long wanted by the Mormons. By happy coincidence the nearly 90% of the area is "federal land."

BTW, I have actually taken part in a controlled burn in the national forest as part of a systems ecology degree program. We had to perform a measurement (weighing some known-weight sticks that had been laying in the forest litter) to be sure the humidity level was high enough, check that forecast winds would not be too strong, and finally check with the US Forest Service the morning we set the fire.

The fire covered about an acre, and the flames were never higher than 6 inches because the intent was to reduce the forest litter. We all had shovels and other digging tools and the Forest Service was standing by to control it if it got out of hand.

The point being that a controlled burn is VERY different from handing out matches with no regard to conditions, setting the fire, and then leaving when it gets out of control and starts the trees burning.

Arson is not as anal...

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The state of "Deseret" would be dominated by the huge population of Southern California.

While a case may be made that the inhabitants of the "Inland Empire" are as cuckoo as the Mormons, I think their respective brands of cuckoo-ness are so different that they would soon be at war with each other.
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Back when that map was drawn, Southern California was just a few sleepy little missions and Native American villages.

The side show to the side show:
Malheur Refuge Occupiers' Trial Date Set For Sept. 7

FBI Arrests Man Linked To Refuge Occupation On Weapons Charges

I'd like to take a step back and avoid superheated rhetoric and esoteric detours on this subject. There are philosophic disagreements and some legitimate-ish grievances raised regarding BLM land management, but that is really not what this conflict was about. That, I believe, is pretext to foment conflict.

The movement that the Bundys, Hammonds, Funicums, etc., come from is NOT about grazing rights or "appropriate" use of the land -those are symptoms- but conflict. It is about an us-them mentality and view of the world, and an aggrieved, paranoid mindset. In days of old, they were the curmudgeons and eccentrics (depending on their economic status) that everyone just had to deal with. In other words, they've existed forever, but are more visible today. THE AMERICAN MILITIA PHENOMENON: A PSYCHOLOGICAL
PROFILE OF MILITANT THEOCRACIES.

The differences today are communication and firepower. The internet in particular allows like-minded people to have a community to coalesce around and feed each other's egos. I don't think that Finicum's life would have ended as it did if he hasn't been encouraged and egged on to pursue his quirky views. And, frankly, they are quirky views. The Mind of the Militias Psychology Today.

It also represents a dangerous mindset. Increasingly, militia members are willing to engender confrontations. Oklahoma City Anniversary: Psychology Of Militia Movements - NPR. As we better understand the psychology behind terrorism, the more apparent it becomes that the "militia movement" is a real-world threat to the nation, and more specifically, to our communities. Burns, Oregon did not invite the militia to their town, but were innocent bystanders, as was Oklahoma City.