Originally Posted by Ardy
Originally Posted by Ezekiel
BREAKING NEWS, Guys, everyone else is not like you. People fall on hard times for many different reasons. Their reactions and individual stories are very different. Many times there are health issues, both mental and physical. Many have no family that they can fall back on

Is there no way to discuss the other side of this problem without being inferentially cast as a hard hearted unsympathetic person?

It is obviously true that many people have encountered some situation that has made them "poor"

But it sems equally obvious that many poor people make very bad life choices
Some of this is bad luck of not being taught otherwise as children, etc.
But if part of the problem is people making bad choices, it does not seem like giving them more benefits addresses the problem
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And Phil has nailed it: We are the richest country in the world. We should be able to provide for our citizens. We should be able to provide both work and assistance when needed.

Imo there already is assistance available. I do not recall the last time i saw a starving person. And there are housing programs also. And i agree that it would be good to offer work... Although that is problematical.

We all know of people that we would never hire as employees
Imo it is foolish to act as if such people do not exist

At some level, people need to learn self discipline
And imo this does not happen unless they see some consequence to their choices
And, for some people, they will remain bums regardless of the consequences
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The dearth of training available to people who have lost their jobs due to automation and/or trade agreements (I have family in the rust belt so I know the drill) is yet another failing of the system and its government with respect to the people it is supposed to represent.

I agree that many of our efforts in this respect are inadequate, or misguided
Otoh,
It may be difficult to train a 45 year old coal minor for the jobs that are available.... And which jobs are often located elsewhere
The governme ts simply not capable of sheilding its citizens from all bad outcomes

Not sure if there is a point here. Not a solution in sight.
1) Yes, some people do make bad choices. But just like anyone else they deserve a chance at correcting that. Following your logic a criminal makes a bad choice so we should lock him/her up and throw away the key? Is it not possible to teach them to make better choices? And in the process not let them starve to death. Not sure where you're going or if you have a suggestion.
So then I guess we should just throw them in the trash if they can't be as you would like them to be?
2) Apparently you have not traveled the country. Try the Ozarks. Try parts of West Virginia. Try parts of New York State. There are many starving people. Many more than you can imagine. In June 2016 there were 60,042 homeless people in NYC, 14,981 homeless families with 23,213 homeless children. Many of them starve.
The purpose of government is to support its citizens - not ostracize them. So while you can't shield people from all possible mistakes that they may make, you can't discard them either.
3) Coal MINERS can do many other things. They can and have been retrained. And if they aren't able to thrive at anything other than manual labor there is plenty of that to go around. We have a crumbling infrastructure that needs rebuilding much of which requires manual work. There are buildings, damns and etc. to be raised. Government should, as it did in the 30s, prioritize that work. That would employ tens of thousands of people.

So in summary, other than creating jobs, retraining and helping people stay alive, what suggestion do you have?

Last edited by Ezekiel; 08/17/16 06:25 PM.
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