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Joined: Aug 2005
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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Take a clue from simple physics, friction is wasted energy. About the only good friction is in your car's brake system, and that friction doesn't make the car go! (My Prius slows down by recapturing energy by regenerative braking, which is why it gets 45 MPG.)

Elementary physics,PIA.

1) You could not walk without the friction between your shoes and the ground. As you try to step forward, you push your foot backward. Friction holds your shoe to the ground, allowing you to walk. Consider how difficult it is to walk on slippery ice, where there is little friction.

2) Writing with a pencil requires friction. You could not hold a pencil in your hand without friction. It would slip out when you tried to hold it to write. The graphite pencil led would not make a mark on the paper without friction.

3) A pencil eraser uses friction to rub off mistakes written in pencil lead. Rubbing the eraser on the lead wears out the eraser due to friction, while the particles worn off gather up the pencil lead from the paper.

4) It is the air resistance or drag that slows down a parachute.

5) And, of course, all braking systems rely on friction.

6) We can not fix nail in the wood or wall if there is no friction. It is friction which holds the nail.

Not all manual labor can be viewed as without skill. There are countless jobs that require human intervention. Automation advances but only inasmuch as it reduces labor costs (which is not always the case) so the capitalist will look for cheap labor (but human labor) where needed. This increases surplus value. Globalization, and its attendant Trade Agreements and Trade Policies are an attempt to procure that cheap labor as well as expanding markets, because, when the domestic market becomes saturated, as it tends to in highly developed economies, and the capitalist can produce goods at a lower cost she can offer those goods domestically, thus, depressing the level of wages in their own countries - increasing again the surplus value.
Vicious cycle aimed solely at increasing the share of wealth that goes to the capitalist as opposed to that which would be distributed in society.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
Better to keep up with the needed maintenance even if it requires guys with shovels, welders, riveters, etc.
I've noticed that one of the political spectrum groups is not into maintaining and fixing and on-going repairs. They wait until the whole thing completely collapses and begins, anew.

There was this one blogger on Greta's that talked about "clean-up" day in her town. This seemed to be happening every six months. That's when I realized that certain political groups do not "maintain" but rather wait until the thing is so in need of dire attention, that they are forced to deal with the problem.

Not to mention any names, but you know the group I'm talking about - and if you're thinking it's the stingy, chintzy, one that doesn't want to spend money - we're on the same page. smile


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Originally Posted by Ezekiel
There are countless jobs that require human intervention. Automation advances but only inasmuch as it reduces labor costs (which is not always the case) so the capitalist will look for cheap labor (but human labor) where needed. This increases surplus value. Globalization, and its attendant Trade Agreements and Trade Policies are an attempt to procure that cheap labor as well as expanding markets, because, when the domestic market becomes saturated, as it tends to in highly developed economies, and the capitalist can produce goods at a lower cost she can offer those goods domestically, thus, depressing the level of wages in their own countries - increasing again the surplus value.
Vicious cycle aimed solely at increasing the share of wealth that goes to the capitalist as opposed to that which would be distributed in society.
Bow


Contrarian, extraordinaire


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I think you have a misconception in your basic physics, Zeke.

Friction requires mechanical energy converted into heat: If you scuff your soles as you walk, that is friction. If you just walk normally and pick up your shoes and put them down along your path, there is no friction involved (other than a tiny bit as part of the sole expands as the weight on the foot increases and air resistance to your movement.)

Likewise, holding a pencil with your fingers involves no friction but the action of the pencil graphite against the paper does. Pounding in a nail creates a lot of friction (that's why nails get hot) but zero friction is generated once it is in there (that's why it cools). You give several examples and several of them do not involve friction.

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I am all for maintaining our infrastructure and we should do it now before more bridges fall down. Interest charges are VERY low right now so it is very cheap for government to do this kind of work. Most of it requires lots of skilled labor that is not repetitive enough to make automation useful. Of course we do have things like paving equipment instead of men with shovels, but that's where the "skilled" part comes into play.

Not really about the topic of this thread, but some government spending now could delay the need for a UBI for a while. Since this kind of work really will continue to be needed, it means some percentage of us will have jobs for a long time.

And who could oppose this? Simple, end-time Christians think Jesus could come back at any time now, so why do maintenance? ROTFMOL

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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
I think you have a misconception in your basic physics, Zeke.

Friction requires mechanical energy converted into heat: If you scuff your soles as you walk, that is friction. If you just walk normally and pick up your shoes and put them down along your path, there is no friction involved (other than a tiny bit as part of the sole expands as the weight on the foot increases and air resistance to your movement.)

Likewise, holding a pencil with your fingers involves no friction but the action of the pencil graphite against the paper does. Pounding in a nail creates a lot of friction (that's why nails get hot) but zero friction is generated once it is in there (that's why it cools). You give several examples and several of them do not involve friction.

Afraid the misconception is yours:

Friction


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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From the wiki entry on friction:

Quote
Friction is the force resisting the relative motion of solid surfaces, fluid layers, and material elements sliding against each other.
And later:
Quote
When surfaces in contact move relative to each other, the friction between the two surfaces converts kinetic energy into thermal energy (that is, it converts work to heat).

There has to be some force attempting to move the two surfaces against each other. If there isn't any such force, there is no friction and thus the heat generated is zero. You don't generate any heat by a nail just sitting in a wood block, and friction can be measured by the heat generated. If you try to force the nail into or out of the wood block, then there is friction because there is force being exerted and heat generated.

Static friction is modeled by the equation:

Ff <= mu x Fn

Where Ff is the force of friction exerted by each surface on the other. It is parallel to the surface, in a direction opposite to the net applied force.

mu is the coefficient of friction, which is an empirical property of the contacting materials.

Fn is the normal force exerted by each surface on the other, directed perpendicular (normal) to the surface.

If Fn is zero, then Ff must also be zero.

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Originally Posted by pondering_it_all
From the wiki entry on friction:

Quote
Friction is the force resisting the relative motion of solid surfaces, fluid layers, and material elements sliding against each other.
And later:
Quote
When surfaces in contact move relative to each other, the friction between the two surfaces converts kinetic energy into thermal energy (that is, it converts work to heat).

There has to be some force attempting to move the two surfaces against each other. If there isn't any such force, there is no friction and thus the heat generated is zero. You don't generate any heat by a nail just sitting in a wood block, and friction can be measured by the heat generated. If you try to force the nail into or out of the wood block, then there is friction because there is force being exerted and heat generated.

Static friction is modeled by the equation:

Ff <= mu x Fn

Where Ff is the force of friction exerted by each surface on the other. It is parallel to the surface, in a direction opposite to the net applied force.

mu is the coefficient of friction, which is an empirical property of the contacting materials.

Fn is the normal force exerted by each surface on the other, directed perpendicular (normal) to the surface.

If Fn is zero, then Ff must also be zero.

In all the examples there is kinetic energy. Hence Fn # 0. So there can be and is friction. The point is it is not wasted energy. It serves a purpose.


"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky



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The web site you linked has a very unusual set of examples that do not ever consider the Fn = 0 state. I suppose you could say there is a value for Ff, and that value is zero. In the sense that zero is a value, in the mathematical realm.

I guess I have the engineering viewpoint, and we would consider the nail in the wood block not to exhibit friction because there is no relative force between the nail and the wood block.


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Friction is what happens when Ezekiel rubs me the wrong way. It can be smooth, cool, and fluid in one direction, yet conversely a nattering nabobism in the other.

And there is only a spirochete to blame.


Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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