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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,089 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,089 Likes: 134 |
Not exactly a scheme .... all very legal
the problems as i see them are the optics of saying he is for the little person all the while he uses the tax code to avoid paying taxes and his large business loss (did he mismanage his business or did he get trapped in a mini economic contraction?)
his surrogates looked like fools trying to support this
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,432 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,432 Likes: 373 |
Bookings at Trump properties have decreased by 59% across the board, when you compare Q1 of 2015 to Q1 of 2016, even as hotel bookings increased, generally. Trump has 33 hotels in all, either complete or in the process of being built.Hipmunk tracked all the domestic ones. Trump’s property in New York’s trendy SoHo neighborhood was hardest hit, with Las Vegas not far behind. Both of those hotels saw 70%+ drops compared to this time last year. Heatstreet.com Don The Con may have to extend that no paying taxes thingy a little longer... 
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
Did anybody else notice? If you have a loss of 900 million and then make 600 million per year in gain, your capital loss write off lasts exactly 1.5 years. And that is only if the loss shares the same type of long-term or short-term status as your gain. If the gain is normal income, then you only get to deduct $3000 per year as you consume the carry-over.
I think if Trump's 900 million dollar loss has lasted 18 years, then he must have worked it out so he only makes a gain of 50 million per year. And his actual income as wages must effectively be zero.
He has structured his gain and income so it is pushed off into the future. Maybe he is waiting until he can lower the top tax rate to realize the income. If he can get the estate tax repealed then he can leave it all to his kids with ZERO tax.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,005 Likes: 133 |
Did anybody else notice? If you have a loss of 900 million and then make 600 million per year in gain, your capital loss write off lasts exactly 1.5 years. And that is only if the loss shares the same type of long-term or short-term status as your gain. If the gain is normal income, then you only get to deduct $3000 per year as you consume the carry-over.
I think if Trump's 900 million dollar loss has lasted 18 years, then he must have worked it out so he only makes a gain of 50 million per year. And his actual income as wages must effectively be zero.
He has structured his gain and income so it is pushed off into the future. Maybe he is waiting until he can lower the top tax rate to realize the income. If he can get the estate tax repealed then he can leave it all to his kids with ZERO tax. Is that why he is trying to be President?
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
It is more complicated than just carrying over loss... he can take that loss and apply it to his taxes as a credit (I don't know the details of the process) which gives added benefits.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,432 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,432 Likes: 373 |
If he can get the estate tax repealed then he can leave it all to his kids with ZERO tax. That's actually his end-game. He wants to restructure taxes to benefit his family. 
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,089 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,089 Likes: 134 |
I think if Trump's 900 million dollar loss has lasted 18 years you have misunderstood the article and situation if he has a loss, then he can look backward for 3 years and use the losses against gains in those years and/or (i don;t recall if it can go both ways or only one way and i am not going to look it up as i did not have a $1B loss last year) he can look forward for 15 years etc the article says he "could have" avoided paying taxes for as much as 18 years ... IOW you have to see the returns to know how the losses were applied and for how long etc
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
I have actually had stock investment losses (though miniscule compared to Trump's), and carried the loss forward for several years. You can keep on carrying the balance forward each tax year, deducting from the same kind of gain up to the amount of the gain. For example, if you have a stock you sell at a $100,000 loss, and then make a stock $10,000 gain the next year, you take a $10,000 loss to offset the gain and carry forward a $90,000 balance to the next year. You can also take $3000 max of that carry forward loss against your regular income (which is insignificant for Trump).
You can do this for many years, until the balance is depleted to zero. For a $900K loss to last 18 years, you would have to gain $50 million per year on the average. To pay zero taxes, you would have to make sure NOT to draw a salary (or draw just $3000), which is easy if you own the business(es).
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
Some comments on the New York Times story about Donald Trump's tax returns - John Hempton. Debt parking
Here is how debt parking works. Suppose the debtor (in this case The Donald) is going to get his debt cancelled for (say) 1c in the dollar. When he gets the debt wiped out the debtor (ie The Donald) will have to report assessable income equal to the debt wiped out (in this case 99 percent of $916 million).
The alternative though is for the debtor to set up a dummy party. The dummy party might be his wife or children or some company or trust set up by them or more likely some completely opaque offshore trust.
And that dummy party goes and buys the debt for say 1.1 cents in the dollar. Then they just sit there.
They don't force the debtor (ie The Donald) to repay. They don't make a profit or loss on the debt. And because the debtor never has his debt forgiven he never gets the assessment on debt forgiveness and he gets to keep his NOLs even though the losses did not come out of his pocket.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,432 Likes: 373
Member CHB-OG
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Member CHB-OG
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 47,432 Likes: 373 |
#LastTimeTrumpPaidTaxes Tonya Harding won the national Figure Skating championship
#LastTimeTrumpPaidTaxes Channel Tunnel opened between England and France
#LastTimeTrumpPaidTaxes Netscape Navigator was leading online browser
Contrarian, extraordinaire
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