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Dec 6th, 2017
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
A major concern of mine (there are so many) is that the adoption of a draconian tax reform right now, along the lines Trump has proposed (and Congress is likely to adopt) will almost certainly guarantee a world-wide recession, like Bush's tax program did - only, given the fragility of the recovery, much, much worse. I can be VERY specific: DeLong-Summers condition
J. Bradford DeLong and Lawrence Summers explained why an expasionary fiscal policy is effective in reducing a government's future debt burden, pointing out that the policy has a positive impact on its future productivity level. They pointed out that when an economy is depressed and its nominal interest rate is near zero, the real interest rate charged to firms is linked to the output .... This means that the rate decreases as the real GDP increases, and the actual fiscal multiplier μ is higher than that in normal times; a fiscal stimulus is more effective for the case where the interest rates are at the zero bound. As the economy is boosted by government spending, the increased output yields higher tax revenue[.] Also we need to take account of the economy's long-run growth rate g, as a steady economic growth rate may reduce its debt-to-GDP ratio. And then we can see that an expansionary fiscal policy is self-financing[.] - Austerity. I left out the formulas as I could not reproduce them here, but they work. What it really means is this: cutting revenues now, when interest rates are near zero, will cripple the government's ability to respond to any economic shocks, and austerity measures will create a recessionary spiral - such as occurred in Europe (think of Greece). Our current unemployment rate averages less than 5%. A precipitous tax cut will almost guarantee it will double before the next election.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133 |
Here's what I've got: this is what many 'conservatives' see as the motivation for 'liberals' - getting free stuff because they are lazy and don't want to work. That is a meme that has been assiduously developed by the right wing propagandists over the last many decades (becoming obvious during the Reagan years, "welfare moms", remember?)
My motivation for a more social approach to living together is that it has more potential to be better - cheaper, less stressful, more healthfully productive, less destructive to the planet.
'Conservatives' are threatened by such things, believing that we can't trust our fellow human beings. As Trump has shown, that attitude can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their world view is; the best approach to life is to 'get yours' before someone else gets it.
Social vs anti-social. Trust vs fear. Of course there are infinite degrees in between... Your'e not making any sense here. Just slinging out politically inflammatory misconceptions. I am interested in other opinions on the validity of my description on how cons and libs are different.
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,083 Likes: 134 |
spitballing i see a fundamental difference in the understanding of what our government is or what any government should be. conservatives believe they can live without government which is contrary to how and why our government was formed. the Founders believed government should provide services to its citizenry, and thus we find as a part of our contractual agreement that the government would do the following things defend etc if we agree to give up some of our inherent biological mandate to live within the bounds of a society which has an arching structure of government. ironically both conservatives and liberals believe in essentially the same things. the real difference is the process of implementation.
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
America can survive bad policy, but not destruction of our Democratic institutions
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
Here's how we make progress: How To Cover Everyone With Pre-Existing Conditions Without The System Collapsing. This is coming from a market-oriented Republican.
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
ironically both conservatives and liberals believe in essentially the same things. the real difference is the process of implementation. Since I couldn't have said it better, I'll simply repeat it, with a 
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,129 Likes: 257 |
His description of the existing plan is not correct: He ignores all subsidies and Medicaid, and says everybody who signs up pays the same amount. That is so not true, it makes everything after that meaningless. He also ignores the fact that people who do sign up can choose their level of coverage and premiums, from Bronze to Gold. (And they DO, based on how sick they are.)
The main problem is that we let people off with a small penalty for not being insured and still take care of them when they show up at the ER. The fine is far, far less than even the cheapest Bronze ACA plan, (essentially a catastrophic care plan with about a $7000 maximum-out-of-pocket, $7000 deductible, and no upper limit).
If we are going to deliver this kind of cost to the non-participants anyway, then we ought to just charge them for it. Eliminate the tax penalty, require minimum participation in the government's run Bronze plan, and keep the subsidies and Medicaid for the poor.
Or the other option would be to eliminate the Mandate and let the uninsured die in the ER parking lot. Choose one, because our half-assed compromise is driving companies out of the insurance business and driving hospital costs up for the rest of us to cover their expenses of the uninsured.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
And I'd like to see a "public agenda" for the people in the middle who wish to make progress for the nation as a whole, and to make the nation whole.
What are the people's interests?
1) Employment/job security.
2) Health security.
3) Fair taxation.
4) Environmental curation.
5) National security.
What else?
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Moderator Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18,003 Likes: 191 |
I agree, PIA, that it is an incomplete solution, and there are other proposals that I like better (e.g., Medicare for all), but it is the start of a reasonable dialogue that acknowledges that MILLIONS of people benefited from the ACA. That is the kind of discussion that needs to be had, rather than "repeal and replace".
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.
Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,177 Likes: 254
It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
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It's the Despair Quotient! Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,177 Likes: 254 |
This is how we protest in Los Angeles: FACEBOOK: Wes Marsala
"The Best of the Leon Russell Festivals" DVD
deepfreezefilms.com
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 12,004 Likes: 133 |
I predict the environment will become a huge issue in the next four years. There's nothing like a good enemy to get people active. Remember James Watt in the Reagan years? That a$$hole jumpstarted the environmental movement. Maybe the environment will actually be an election issue in 2018? Green groups prepare to fight Trump
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.
R. Buckminster Fuller
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