Capitol Hill Blue Forums Life and Moral Issues Crime & Punishment Capital punishment: Why not?

Crimes that the majority of citizens considered - personal?

I personally think vengeance is not a good reason for capital punishment. In general, the whole issue of vengeance is very emotional and therefore would tend to distort judgment. And even assuming that we might make the right choice most of the time, there will be mistakes. And I just would prefer to avoid the chance of making a mistake on such an issue.

I do think certain people have proven themselves to be irredeemably violent and dangerous. I think it is a little unfair to ask state employees to constantly risk their lives to care for these people. And for at least this sub group, I would support capital punishment.

Again I would note an assumption, being that the state employees who risk their lives are compelled to do so.

I understand the economics of prisons being located where labor is cheap, and people who will take any job they can because they don't have a choice - in fact, I have a friend who is a prison guard - but one applies for these jobs, one is not appointed to them.

[quote=Mal'
Crimes that the majority of citizens considered - personal? [/quote]


Personal to the Jewish and Blacks, yes. To me, as a member of the human race, yes such crimes should be punished. But those crimes do not provoke "vengenance" on my part- just a desire for justice and a desire to see such deeds punished.

You can answer any way you wish to answer, Gregor. I would still prefer a moral or a principled argument based on the political philosophy of collectivism -- which, by the way, contains within it a political spectrum inclusive of Mussulini's Fascism to Fabian's socialism, and Hitler's national socialism to Napoleon's imperium.


Good enough, then. We can take the long way around, if you wish. My response to your statement is, "What do you mean by "misplaced justice" and what is your basis for claiming that it would suffice "alone" as a universal argument against capital punishment?
Yours,
Issodhos

That leaves me out. Good luck.

Personal to the Jew and Blacks, but not personal to you as a member of the human race?

Don't most of us perceive certain violent crimes as personal regardless of whether or not we belong to the same race or ethnicity as the victim? To me, the crimes committed against the Jews and Blacks are very personal, even though I’m neither Jewish or of African decent. Race hasn’t anything to do with it, IMO.

By misplaced justice I would mean that the wrong person is occasionally executed or sentenced to die. I didn't claim it to be a universal argument against capital punishment, merely a reason to avoid it. I guess I'm just not universally against capital punishment, just to spare the feelings of a child-rapist- murderers family is not enough to keep me from wanting to see him hung. I don't see this as vengeance or as a deterrent but as punishment that fits the crime.

No discussion of a jury of our peers? Are we too ignorant to be trusted on the subject of justice? What is Issodhos asking? Do we leave all punishment up to the state?

California was a no death penalty state until the Manson family was allowed to live under the law. It took several months for the California citizens to get a petition and a ballot position that brought back the death penalty. Many of us with teenage kids, knew that Charlie would be the new model of the out of control kids at the time.

Many of those Manson family members have been released back to the streets and the two men involved have managed to marry, raise children and make money off their notoriety.

The death penalty is still a state's right. But how many here really understand keeping this right free from the authority of the collectives? I'm surprised Charlie Manson doesn't have his own holiday among his followers in California. NBC still has their Manson nights where all the drugs, abuse, broken laws, cut up bodies are exposed to all the sickos among our citizens. They treat it as it if were nothing but Halloween! Charlie was nothing but a Michael Vick except he used people instead of dogs.

[quote=Mal'Personal to the Jew and Blacks, but not personal to you as a member of the human race? [/quote]

YES, personal to me as a member of the human race. Forgive my inarticulateness please.

I am not arguing the heniousness of what was done to the Jewish and Blacks or any other victim of crime. What I am saying is in order for me to feel the need for vengenance the crime would have to be personal. As in someone hurting my children. Capital punishment shouldn't be about vengenance. It should be about justice and protecting future innocents.