Capitol Hill Blue Forums Political Issues Finance, the economy & Economics The Debate: Is America’s future capitalist or socialist?

Sure it's easy to cheat! But that cash came from somewhere and it's going somewhere. The last and the next transaction will fold it back into the digital world. The tax is also so small it's not worth fussing over. Unless you're buying and selling a zillion things a day, like Jeff Bezos....ya know?

The reason I think EVERYBODY should pay taxes is pretty simple. First, the poor is a group that is not even noted for voting. My thought has always been that if you have no skin in the game then why bother? I used to have a couple businesses that hired a lot of the poor. Every election I got them all together and explained a simple fact; "if you are poor you are going to get screwed. Politicians know which groups vote and those are the groups,that get paid attention to". I never told them how to vote only that they should. I failed miserably.

Capital gains - you don't pay the same taxes as on normal income, you pay less. I know the logic but disagree. Income remains income. There are lots of those kinds of things in our tax code. Hell, the last so called "tax break" have some interesting examples.

The logic behind depreciation is simple. Its a cost of doing business and our tax code allows us to take these costs off before arriving at how much we owe. Over the years this has moved around, ie. how fast can you depreciate, is depreciation considered the same as buying a truck used in business, etc.

I can't go into all this stuff in detail but its just taxes and the 'deals' that help the businessman, investor, etc. The problem with these things (deductions) is that they can be pesky. It really boils down to whether you pay taxes on the net income or the gross income. The real problem is the simple fact is that we now have a system which is at least as complex as any religious book and actually contributes to our economy (accountants, bookeepers, attorneys, etc). I wonder what would happen if we had a system where business had standard deductions based on business category. Lobbyists would have a field day I fear.

Microsecond stock trades come under the heading of "Because they can". As long as we have markets its gonna happen. That's one reason I want them taxed. We could call it "Microtax" <g>

Anyway............

How the New Deal was paid for...

One word descriptions:

Capitalism = competition
Socialism = collaboration

What are you, logtroll, some kind of neoliberal! (That's a really good article that makes any excellent point.) FDR's primary focus was on leveraging capital for public good, and it worked brilliantly. Yes, it saved capitalism from itself, but it also saved socialism, making it mainstream. What conservatives have lost sight of is that the nation really hasn't changed that much since then. They've just been fooled into thinking it otherwise. As Lincoln said, "You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." Conservatives fall into the seconds category.

I confess, I have been trying to make capitalism work for achieving triple-bottom-line (TBL) objectives, but it is very difficult. Neither the rules nor the mental attitudes (even of liberals) for investing are a good fit for a people/planet/profit opportunity at a local level.

I have concluded that practically everyone is of two minds - literally - when it comes to money. One mind, of the philanthropist, will give money to good causes and expect nothing in return... even failure is tolerated as at least being an attempt to do good. But that same erstwhile philanthropist, when presented with investing the same amount of money in good deeds close to home that actually might return some dollars, will switch to a mind full of fear of the risk of loss.

I have been soliciting investors since last July to join the Trollworks LLC, for the purpose of raising the money to build what we call a Biochar+Energy Sys3, a pyrolysis machine that will take waste biomass, dry it, and make pelletized feedstock that can be stored and transported (holy grails of the energy markets) for use in pyrolyzers that will heat buildings. Both pyrolysis steps create heat and char, two products of substantial monetary value, and even greater associated TBL values. The system will sequester a pound of CO2 out of the atmosphere into the soil for every pound burned, and regenerate soil productivity in the process.

The machine in question is already under a three year lease contract to a grant funded pilot project, which will pay 150% more than its cost, operating just four months each year. Sounds like a no-brainer investment opportunity to me, especially for folks concerned about climate change. "Get paid for CO2 drawdown? Are you f*_king kidding me??"

Yet.... I have secured four investors so far, all friends of mine for whom trust in me as a person is not an issue - however trust in me to not lose their investment is an issue. I have been working on four more potential investors since last September, all climate and social activists who live in Colorado where a second pilot project is being developed. Basically the same scenario, the Sys 3 would be leased to the project for four months a year, doubling the ROI! But those folks, who do not know me so well, are perseverating over minutia in the company documents. Did I mention that the price of a membership is in the ballpark of what all of these people give away to good causes in the same period of time?

All of the same people have their life savings in 401Ks and normal investment vehicles where they generally know neither the managers nor exactly what their money is being used for (often it is being used by companies who are causing climate change).

I might actually have to borrow the money to complete the pre-leased Sys3.

Strange, ain't it?

Maybe you should market yourself as a non-profit dedicated to preserving the planet and seeking donations for the cause.

Kickstarter might get you a few bucks from some of the save the world types with $2-5 to spend...

I might even be tempted to send $5 your way which goes entirely against my nothing for nothing investment and philanthropic policy.

I appreciate the ideas - I have looked at Kickstarter but it's not without its drawbacks. I'm actually confident that the track I am on will work out okay.

The underlying point of my post is to shed a little light on the embedded psychological and cultural issues that are part and parcel of these things we casually call "socialism" and "capitalism" and "neoliberalism", etc.

When you get right down in the mud, we are dealing with "peopleism", not to be confused with "humanism".

Here's an interesting new approach to venture capital, one that applied to in 2016 but was rejected because the company "wasn't developed enough". I am about to apply again...

Yes, it is. This is the sort of project the Green New Deal should support.